Sigh. For what other crime would this even be an issue?
Thanks for the link to C.H.
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Q. Friend Has Revised One-Night Stand Story: A friend recently called me and said she had a one-night stand after drinking too much. She was beating herself up over drinking too much and going home with a guy she met at a bar. I reassured her that everyone makes mistakes and didn't think much more of the account. However, since then, she has told many people that she was a victim of date-rape—that the guy must have put something into her drink . She spoke to a rape crisis line, and they said even if she was drunk, she couldn't have given consent so she was a victim of rape. She now wants to press charges—she has the guy's business card. I have seen her very intoxicated on previous occasions, to the point she doesn't remember anything the next day. I'm not sure on what my response should be at this point. Pretend she never told me the original story?
A: Trying to ruin someone else's life is a poor way to address one's alcohol and self-control problems. Since her first version of the story is that she was ashamed of her behavior, and since you have seen her knee-walking drunk on other occasions, it sounds as if she wants to punish the guy at the bar for her own poor choices. Yes, I agree that men should not have sex with drunk women they don't know. But I think cases like the one you are describing here—in the absence of any evidence she was drugged—where someone voluntarily goes home with a stranger in order to have a sexual encounter, makes it that much harder for women who are assaulted to bring charges. Talk to your friend. Tell her that she needs to think very long and hard about filing a criminal complaint against this guy if there's any way her behavior could be construed to be consensual. Say you understand her shame, but you're concerned about her drinking, and if she addresses that, she won't find herself in such painful situations.
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23 comments:
"...remember: impairment is not incapacitation
How do you know that?
It oh-so-conveniently preserves male dominion over women.
Thus, it doesn't require logic.
Of course, this is a CLASSIC example of someone acting irresponsibly and changing her story to cover up. But let's not be bothered with the facts?
Because Anonymous: Impairment does not equal a gun to the head or a knife to the throat. If i get drunk & go spend my money on a movie, Should i sue the movie theater for letting me pay money when i was drunk? If yes, You are lost. If no, What's the difference? If a person is so drunk that they can't consent than yes, It would be rape but that's not what we're talking about here.
Impairment is NOT incapacitation!
I think she should tell her friend not to file a criminal report against this guy. But, this guy is clearly a jerk to take a strange women home and have sex with her knowing she is so drunk she doesn't know what's going on. Should she see this guy at a bar again, I would have no problem with her telling any girl in the bar he seemed to be clinging to that this guy a jerk. He is not to be trusted. They should not drink too much in his presence. I don't believe this drunk sex stuff should be a crime. But, I see nothing wrong with warning the next girl. No one goes to jail, yet the next girl is warned about this guy.
Anonymous said...
I think she should tell her friend not to file a criminal report against this guy. But, this guy is clearly a jerk to take a strange women home and have sex with her knowing she is so drunk she doesn't know what's going on.
Um, just exactly how do you know he knew she was so drunk she didn't know what was going on? Have you ever seen someone in a blackout, for example? They can appear completely aware of what is going on. this is particularly true of alcoholics, which it appears from the letter she is. How intoxicated was he? Perhaps she should have seen he could not consent since he "clearly didnt know what was going on." People do not have signs on their forhead that say "I have reached the point of intoxication that I am unaware of my actions and am unable to accurately judge the consequences of them." If she had, instead of going home with this guy, gotten in her car to drive home, should any potential poilice officer not arrest her for dui since she clearly does not know what is going on?
Do YOU have any idea what is going on?
And if I go to a casino when sober and had determined I would gamble 100 dollars as my children need food, but, due to free drinks handed out by every ready waitresses, I get hammered and lose 300 dollars....
....I can press charges for robbery because they intentionally got me drunk so they could take my money.
Sure.
These people just hate men, notice this wouldn't be an issue if she didn't have his business card, just saying.
@Anonymous
The illogic of your comments and callous indifference to the guy's circumstances is breathtaking. What if he is also drunk? How is it his responsibility, even when drunk, to be the girls moral agent?
A drunken woman who gets behind the wheel of a car who kills your 4 year-old child while driving is guilty of a crime and must be punished. She has agency even when drunk and must take responsibility for her own behaviour - just as a man would in the same situation.
If she is deemed to not have agency in one situation, she must be deemed to not have agency in every other situation in which the contributing factor is present.
If society dictates that a single alcoholic drink can cause loss of agency in women, and not in men, logic dictates that society must make drinking of alcohol illegal for women.
Well, lets say she sues the guy, what stops him from saying that he was drunk too and he didnt consent either, so she raped him?
what if the guy was drunk too? why is it always that the guy ... AT THE BAR ... is thought of as completely sober and making rational decisions and always portrayed as some evil villain bent on debauching innocent drunk girls?
maybe he was ashamed too. no recourse for him though.
Anon at 2:56. How do you NOT know that?
In any event, I'm just quoting Brett Sokolow, High Priest of the sexual grievance industry.
Wait, wait, wait. No women too drunk to decide to have sex is responsible for her own rape if the guy reasonably (in some states it's a subjective test on the guy's part) knew she was too drunk to make a rational decision. But she could be responsible for raping a guy (I've never seen a woman charged for doing that while drunk).
Of course she should ignore the blatant contradictions in her friend's story/-ies! In fact, she could testify under oath, giving exactly the version that the feminist special prosecutor wants, knowing full well that she's lying through her teeth!
Sheesh, do we even need to have these discussions? Of course she should ignore the truth when a woman's credibility is on the line! She's betraying teh sister by even asking such a ridiculous question.
Nice article. I often hear, usually from feminists, that being drunk automatically means no. If someone is drunk then they can't consent basically is what they're saying and therefore if they have sex, even if they pushed it, they were raped.
This seems to really be at odds with logic. Ii makes me wonder if someone is drunk and rapes someone else, can they say the same thing? "I was drunk and therefore didn't know what I was doing and couldn't consent to raping that person."
8:54: You seem to have stumbled onto the wrong blog.
What did dude @ 8:54 say?
Can't remember, Billy.
If you let a guy buy you a drink when he is drunk, are you stealing from him? If so, there should be agreat many women on charges of theft.
This is a classic. Woman goes and has a good time with a guy, but gets a bad case of the regrets, so the natural response must be to tell everyone she was raped.
If she is so ashamed, why is she telling people anything at all? Anybody but the guy, and whatever friends she was partying with, knows that she went with him. She could have easily denied going home with him with some half-assed excuse and her friends would be none the wiser.
If his intention was to date-rape her, why give her his card? I have never heard of a case where the rapist was kind enough to leave the victim their number, in case they wanna get raped again. The guy probably thought she was cute and wanted her to call him.
Why couldn't she just learn from her mistakes and drink less next time if she knows her judgement sucks after a few drinks.
Under the Law voluntary intoxication is not a defence to a crime.You can't argue that you were intoxicated when you got a DWI and didn't know what you were doing was a crime.
So if you voluntarily go out and drink and intoxicate yourself and have sex whose fault is that? And let's remember that sex is legal and trivial as opposed to driving a 2 ton killing machine while drunk. If yu got yourself drunk and had sex and then regretted it then just mark it down as a learning experience.
Incapacitated under the law means unconscious, or so mentally retarded that you're practically a vegetable, or a mental patient that is very heavily drugged etc and things of that nature.And force means real physical force or a credible threat of real physical force or bodily injury.(some 5' 98lb wealking telling some burly roller derby queen he's going to twist her arm if she doesn't have sex with him is not a credible threat lol)
"Date rape" drugs?These are drugs that are marketed in other countries and are closely related to Valium,Xanax, etc that are sold in the US and have about the same effect. They are not what would be called a "micky finn"(chloral hydrate) in the old days used to knock a person out.
There's also another problem where a female may take a few valium and then have sex and then say she was drugged at the time. To me that comes under voluntary intoxication and can never be used in a rape allegation since any misunderstanding was the direct result of the female's own self induced drugging.
@3.51 "But, I see nothing wrong with warning the next girl."
And I see nthing wrong with publishing the names of females who have made rape allegations regardless of whether they are true or false.
Females who get drunk or put themselves in situations situations are just asking fr trouble and are probably just to stupid t ever be trusted. Men should be warned who these females are.
This one’s a controversial story. But if the woman feels she was raped, despite her original story, then I think she has the right to press charges. Also, it doesn’t really matter if she was drunk, knew the person, enjoyed the other party’s company, or even if she invited him in or if she would have said “yes” under different, consensual circumstances. This will be decided by the state’s own statute that defines the types of actions that qualify as sexual assault.
It is still best if the woman informs a trustworthy adult about the abuse as early as possible. Most sexually abused victims don’t disclose they experience because they are afraid; they could’ve been threatened by the rapist, or they fear the consequences of their confession. But rape victims should know and understand that they are not to blame for what happened to them. Anyway, if the woman in this article was indeed not raped, I believe the law will be able to prove it.
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