Here's Michael Daly on the falsely accused young minority men in the Hofstra false rape case: "The five were freed after getting the good scare that they well deserved." And this: "These five may not be guilty, but that does not make them innocent. They should stop their whimpering and apologize for acting like mutts."
If you want to know why this comment is so terribly repulsive, read this -- it's required reading for everyone interested in the issues we discuss here: Lambs to the Slaughter: The Hofstra False Rape Case.
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18 comments:
A few observations:
1. I doubt that the false rape accusations are, in the long run, going to unduly hurt the lives of the accused. For example, if you google Stalin Felipe he is repeatedly identified as having been the victim of a false allegation. That's notoriety but of a sort that bound to provoke a huge amount of sympathy. I am not minimizing the horror of his ordeal and I am infuriated by the chronic misandry of feminists. But I just don't see it negatively affecting their lives to any great extent over the long haul.
2. We do have a rape culture in this country that is designed to keep women fearful and confused and under the thumb of oppressors. I agree with that idea 100%. Where I differ is that it looks to me as if the people doing the oppressing are feminists who use rape hysteria as a way of getting and keeping converts.
3. Compare and contrasts the victims of the false accusation who bear their accuser no ill will and just want to get on with their lives versus feminists who whine and complain and harp on victimization regardless of how trivial or even fictional that victimization may be. Obviously, the reason they're considered to be a bunch of strident, hysterical man-hating bitches is because they're victims of a patriarchal smear campaign.
Heironymus.. "I just don't see it negatively affecting their lives to any great extent over the long haul"
Are you kidding? You need to do a little more research before you open your yap. You are wrong on all 3 counts. Absurdly wrong.
1)And what else comes up when you google Stalin Felipe?--The word RAPE!-Even though it was false,Even though you can find that through searching,It's still not a good thing,Would you ever want your name to be associated with that word?-Doubt it.Oh,And the trauma of being falsely accused is going to stay with him his whole life just how it would a rape victim who got justice,See what i'm saying?
2)What rape culture?-You mean the one where women are rarely(if ever)blamed for their actions leading up to their rape & are given support from the communities, & in which men are shamed to become "Part of the solution",Men who would never even dream of harming a woman,Shamed simply for being male,-That rape culture?
3)What is to compare? Feminists who whine & cry about everything are victims of a
"patriarchal smear campaign" Really?-So,The feminists who complain about a non-existing rape culture,A mythical wage gap,And sexism whenever they don't get their way are victims of patriarchy? Really?
Please do not excuse the behavior of feminists or false accusers by calling them "victims"-It plays down their actions whether you intended it or not.
Hieronymus Braintree
I think you are wrong.
False rape accusations may well have a long-term adverse effect on someones life; be it in interpersonal relationships, career or some other form.
There is no more a 'rape culture' in this country than there is a 'theft culture' or 'murder culture', that's just a stupid thing to say.
can't comment on all of it as not had chance to read fully but was prompted by hieronymus post so read the part to confirm.
you know what i find really odd.
REF The false rape article blog artitle, is that they say they hold no hatred for her.
Nor would i in their position.
I would just spend a good deal of time using whatever power legally avaliable to me, or through actions that do not break the law. i would use it to break her life and perhaps those that supported her improperly.
Every legal challenge in the book to the level that is finacially expendable to me.
Notifications would go out in hand and on-line.
Name, face, every job she applied for that i could be aware of, expeciarly if she got job, the employee's would find out.
New boyfriends, husbands, lovers.
I could envision using whatever means in my power to turn her life to ruin,have to shelter herself away to hide from the consequence of her actions and each time she got close to rebuilding, i would tear it down again.
now perhaps i am fantasying, who knows, who knows...
lets pray i never find out, mostly for my sake.
but i come from a father who is the best father in the world, he is also far less forgiving then i am of those who cross him.
but hatred.. hatred is a double edged sword, it can consume you if you let it.
i prefer a far more perverse and perhaps darker form of getting my pleasure in seeing my enemys in pain.
So perhaps thats why i struggle to understand their kindness to her, perhaps just a PR thing rather then heart felt feeling on it.
You don't have to forgive, you don't have to forget, you don't even have to be merciful.
but don't let hatred consume you, don't let a quest for vengance destroy her life at the expence of your own.
know how far you can take it.
anyway.. forgive this if complete hogwash but just seeing that part of it drove me to write this up, love FRS and the great done by this and voice for men.
keep it up
Anonymous only because not got account and spelling mistakes due to lack of using spell checker and dyslexia
"I just don't see it negatively affecting their lives to any great extent over the long haul."
A lot of employers won't touch these guys for fear that "if something happens," they will be blamed for hiring someone connected with a vile rape charge. You know, where there's smoke . . . . How many prospective employers do you think are going to do a thorough examination of the case to find out what really happened? In this CYA culture, they'll feel they don't have the luxury to give these guys the benefit of the doubt.
I read that some of the chief reasons behind false rape allegations are revenge and to create an alibi for regrettable behavior. Clearly her reasoning was based upon the later. I sometimes wonder if society were to view female sexuality in a less judgmental light would a lot of these false allegations stop. Sadly, however I don’t see any end to slut shaming. I admit that if I were told about an incident wherein a guy had sex with five women on one occasion, I wouldn’t think any less of him. But, I view this girl and any women who would do such a thing as a complete skank. Yuk! Even more, sad if this girl were a friend of mine I would likely end the friendship. Wish I didn’t feel this way. But, can’t help. . . There is a double standard.
td9red - ”I sometimes wonder if society were to view female sexuality in a less judgmental light would a lot of these false allegations stop.”
Um, No!
Amanda Hess already floated that trial balloon WRT Danmell Ndonye, and it was easily enough refuted then (Check the side bar on the right for AMANDA HESS).
Woman who make FRA-for-alibi are not thinking about what society at-large thinks of them. They are, much more specifically concerned with what select individuals think of them. As we well know, Danmell Ndonye was confronted by her boyfriend shortly after she engaged in multiple sex acts with multiple partners after “ditching” him at a party.
The whole Hofstra FRA Hoax was born out of her desire to convince her boyfriend that she wasn’t the skank that she was. Society was already rather “accepting” of her behavior, and most people who would have ever heard about her slutting it up would have had liitle concern, and likely a lot of “You go grrl” encouragement for her sexual self-empowerment (just as they typically do for all other young women who slut it up and cheat on husbands and boyfriends).
The one and only person Danmell Ndonye was trying to persuade was her boyfriend.
This nonsense of the imagined slut-shaming of women pushing them to make self-protective FRA’s is a “red herring”. Woman make FRA-for-alibi’s to their partner’s and/or their friends and families first and foremost – because that is the limited groups of people they hope to persuade. Beyond that, when they do go to police, it is usually because they are compelled by those who they told first, either by the insistence of those people, of due to the disbelief of those people (as we know to have been the case of Ndonye’s boyfriend, only going to police to try to prove to him that she wasn’t lying).
Skip the emotional appeals to some supposed double standards as a half-ass justification for FRA's, and try to realize that woman chose to make FRA’s for their own personal and selfish reasons, quite free from any thought of what society will think of them – either for making an FRA, or for having been a slut.
Heironymus,in regards to your first point, hundreds of men, that we know of, have taken their own lives as a result of false rape accusations. Were their lives unduly hurt?You'd probably say no. Thousands of men have been killed by others as a result of false rape accusations. Were THEIR lives unduly hurt?
How do you get to the point where being a jock or rich or obnoxious is justification for psychologically and emotionally destroying people and/or causing their deaths in your mind?I'd really like to know.
You don't have a CLUE how these men feel or will feel for the rest of their lives. Let's see how you feel after it happens to you or your loved ones. And with people like you making arguments like you do, eventually making false rape accusations WILL become common enough that you will personally be affected by one. Let's see how you feel then. Let's see if you're big enough to admit your mistake.
"I sometimes wonder if society were to view female sexuality in a less judgmental light would a lot of these false allegations stop."
So that's the price we have to pay for women to act like adults and stop committing heartless and insane crimes against innocent men,huh? Who is holding a gun to these women's heads and forcing them to act in a manner society, and you yourself, finds disgusting or shameful?
SOCIETY needs to be reordered so women can act like floozies without anyone stating their opinions about such behavior?
Plus,your comment is a red herring anyway. Feminists reassured us 50 years ago if women were allowed to work at the same jobs as men and earn the same pay women would be paying for the dates and supporting househusbands. Look at the social landscape, is that EVER going to happen except as random freak occurrences?
Keep your mouth shut about sluts' disgusting behavior or we'll levy more false rape accusations against you,whereas the male equivalent behavior is repulsive enough to entirely justify the commission of a crime against them that will destroy their lives and possibly get them killed,as per Heironymus' comment, what a wonderfully equal world we live in.
It's a good thing we take feminist advice on social policy or else we'd have never gotten to this point.
@ tdred, I believe statistically (contrary to gender-feminist agit-prop)its more females that are "slut shaming" then males.
But we can't let facts get in the way of gender-feminist empowerment can we??
Billy Williams,
1) Cool down. Yes the word rape is used. But it's identified as a false rape allegation. My point stands. Jeepers. Point taken about emotional. Although I wasn't clear, I was thinking of job opportunities and such because the was the context of the thread in response to one of the Hofstra accused worry that whenever anybody Googled his name the word rape was going to come up. As far as his future emotional state, you don't know and I don't know. He could recover just fine from this. People do, you know.
2) In your passion, you seem to have missed my point. I was making the observation that when feminists claim there is a rape culture they seem to be projecting. That is they are accusing men of being guilty of feminists' own behavior. Capice?
3) You appear to have completely missed the point of my point. When I wrote about feminists being victims of a patriarchal smear campaign I was being sarcastic--the very opposite of excusing their behavior.
Anonymous 1,
Well-constructed argument you got there. I don't see how I can do anything but respect your opinion.
Anonymous 2,
I suspect you did not read all of point 2. I said that there is a rape culture but that it's a feminist rape culture: AKA the sexual grievance industry.
Archivist,
It is perhaps true that I'm assuming too much on the part of employers. However, since his innocence appears to be about as well publicized as the accusation any claim that they'd be held liable for hiring someone associated with a rape charge would be both logically and legally unfounded.
PS: The angry, ill-read responses to my original comment in this thread reminds me all too much of dealing with feminists. I had hoped that something like that wasn't going to happen here.
td9red - ”I sometimes wonder if society were to view female sexuality in a less judgmental light would a lot of these false allegations stop. Sadly, however I don’t see any end to slut shaming.”
As I am unlikely to sway td9red, I will simply point out that, as a significant portion (separated from simply “he said/she said” regrets, true alibi FRA’s are those involving claims of violent forcible stranger rape, i.e. drug into the bushes) alibi FRA’s are an attempt to cover for some infidelity on the part of a woman.
Thus, the appeal to “society viewing female sexuality in a less judgmental light” is really nothing more than saying ”if men were to be accepting of their wives and girlfriends cheating on them”
I wonder if would argue that other problems could be likewise reduced if women would simply be accepting of men cheating on them?
Hieronymus Braintree:
1)Men who are falsely accused of rape do lose job opportunities regardless of the outcome of the case & even though it's identified as a false allegation it's still not a pretty thing when your name is associated with the word RAPE! & one of the accused even stated he still gets flashbacks & i doubt he'd recover just fine,When something horrible like this happens rarely,If ever do victims recover fully & immediately. If you really want to see the harmfulness of false allegations,Just search around this site for awhile.
2)Thanks for clarifying!
3)Thanks for clarifying!
Oh and i know i'm emotional,I agree with you there,It's because these cases & your words get me really worked up in the horribleness of it.
Billy Williams,
I absolutely do not deny that, as a general principal, that men falsely accused of rape lose job opportunities. I was speaking directly to and only about the Hofstra case. I see your point that they may lose job opportunities but, since it is well known that the were falsely accused, they might actually get opportunities from people who are understandably sympathetic.
I hadn't heard about the flashbacks. For what it's worth, I woke up at two in the morning for about six months after 911 (having been about two miles away from the attacks) with my heart pounding in my chest. Eventually, the early-morning panic attacks went away and, ten years later, I can honestly say that I haven't thought about it much for the last few years except when liberals got themselves in typically high dungeon by promiscuously accusing people of being "Islamophobes," just because they didn't think it was appropriate for Muslims to build a specifically Islamic cultural center a mere two blocks where 2,700 people were killed in the name of Jihad.
Slwerner
You took my comments and went off the deep end. There is never a justification for making a FRA. That is not at all what I was suggesting.
When I wrote the word “society” here. In essence I meant her mother, friends, people she cares about b/c their beliefs, their morals come from societal norms. Women tend to judge other women more harshly.
Your correct, if the purpose of the lie was to cover up an infidelity societal acceptance of female promiscuity will not change that.
td9red - "You took my comments and went off the deep end."
Perhaps. But then again, you basically wrote the same thing as did Amanda Hess - who was decrying over-all (perceived/imagined) societal attitudes and arguing that they were what lead women (like Danmell Ndonye) to make an FRA rather than admitting their sluttery.
Yes, family and friends might care, but society at-large does not. A better argument could be made that society has long been encouraging more female sexual antics.
So, when you made what seemed like an appeal for all of society to be more open to female promiscuity and infidelity, you sure did sound like Amanda Hess did.
Haven't read the Hess article, yet.
I think they'll lose more opportunities than they gain.
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