If you want to see real advocacy, go read Glenn Sacks' rebuttals to David Futrelle in the comments of Futrelle's article here: http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/dismantling-the-mens-rights-movement/3/.
Glenn Sacks is among the most reasonable voices of this entire movement. He may be too moderate for some of you. As shown by the despicable attacks on him in Futrelle's comments, Glenn is too extreme for Futrelle and his lynch mob. Which tells you all you need to know about Futrelle and his minions.
Glenn's responses illustrate why he is so successful.
I am not a regular reader of Futrelle's, and vow not to read him again. I would urge our readers not to frequent his daily attempts at sarcasm (Axel/Jason -- don't email me his latest inanity). If attention mongers like Futrelle don't have an audience, at some point, they get bored and find something else to do.
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8 comments:
I'm telling you, I just read it again. I smiled -- and wished Glenn was still blogging on a regular basis. Wow. That's how to argue. Made Futrelle look like a buffoon.
Pierce,
That isn't that hard to do. Paul Elam did the same thing to him. Futrelle is nothing more than a tabloid reporter, hoping to use the MRM to get his 15 minutes.
Glenn, and several others from the F&F group, made Futrelle look rather foolish (Not that it was difficult).
Seeing Glenn post like that did my heart good: sraightforward; economy of words; and impeccable logic.
By the way, Glenn is also an advocate for an unassailable message. I remember telling Dr. Holstein one time (who is every bit as impressive as Glenn) that if you have to pick one issue in the MRA fight, the rights of fathers is it. Difficult to argue with fatherhood.
Both Glenn and Holstein are even more impressive when you talk to them than in writing.
They are right up with Prof. KC Johnson, guru of the Duke lacrosse case, for people to emulate in this movement. Aside from me, of course.
victims of domestic violence really do deserve shelters and sympathy. The epidemic of prison rape deserves to be taken seriously, instead of simply providing an easy punchline to crude jokes. MRAs raise real concerns about the effects of circumcision. But they’re not likely to make any headway on any of these issues if they keep doing what they’re doing.
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Wow. He actually gives a shit about some of our issues (although not the biggies, like false rape accusations and parental rights)? Amazing.
Anyhoo, if there are some people in our midst who genuinely loathe women in general, that's no worse than the feminists, who have been spewing anti-male hatred for decades (without rousing the condemnation of this guy or other apparent manginas). It hasn't hurt them much, has it?
And yes, some bad ideas and attitudes do circulate in the MRM, particularly on the more extreme boards. But that in no way cancels out what we are doing. Someone has to shine a light on the horrible crimes that are being committed against men and on the system that enables the scumbags to get away with it.
Futrelle's blog is the literary equivalent of the class bully picking on the retarded kid and mugging for laughs to the girls who think he's cute. He picks out the most inane examples of men's rights advocacy, or he twists a legitimte men's rights point, and contorts it out of context, to make it look absurd.
His shtick is easy to do. Someone sent me his take on rape claims and he cites radical feminist ideologues, something I DON'T do here. His piece is laughable, it's so radical. His take on false claims is the same as all the other rape feminists: hateful. False claims are not worthy of his consideration even one bit. As a friend of mine said, that's like telling Jerry Lewis to stop his Muscular Dystrophy telethon because cancer is a worse disease. How awful are these people to actually believe that?
And, yeah, we sometimes are guilty of some of the same excesses, like when we cite extreme examples of feminist "thought" as representative of "feminists." But that's not as common as people like Futrelle think in the rape area, where the leading advocates are fairly militant feminists.
Example: some of the leading sexual assault counselors do NOT think women should be charged for false rape claims. There IS an element of "payback" to mainstream feminist rape doctrine. Leading rape feminists routinely engage in dishonesty about stats (easy examples, citing the attrition rate for rape convictions in the UK; claiming one-in-four college women are raped, and also claiming 60 percent don't report -- when THE ONE-IN-FOUR AND THE 60 PERCENT FIGURES ALWAYS YIELD RESULTS LIGHTYEARS APART -- these morons aren't even internally consistent).
Anyway, there is a legal phrase to describe Futrelle and his ilk: they are pieces of shit. To put it charitably. Do not read it. Please.
It feels so good reading that
There IS an element of "payback" to mainstream feminist rape doctrine.
Pierce,
I'm going to quibble a bit on that phrase... I think there is a large part of feminism that is only about "payback". I don't think it's limited to the rape arena. Family law/father's rights are a good example of that type of "payback" attitude.
Really, it all touches on a power grab. And feminists are doing everything they can to grab all the power they can. And there are a lot of men who have blindly handed that power over (V.P. Biden and VAWA come to mind).
when i read that post all i could think about was the ghandi quote "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"
By taking a small sample of the more extreme comments from sites and attempting to claim they are the norm yet are the first to claim solanis , johnson , itzin and the ilk are not representative of feminist thinking as a whole , they cant have it both ways.
I have heard the whole mysoginy thing recently when i called someone on the daily mail message boards who called me sexist and a woman hater because i refered to harriet harman as a harridan , the fact as the most powerful gender feminist in britain she once advocated for peadophiles to have access to child porn and the fact that by using incorrect stats on rape she wasnt helping , in fact if they used the correct conviction rapes on the crime "real" victims of rape ( not referencing fra here ) would know they are more likely to be belived and as such would come forward. Those who are spearheading the movement through the media, through politics and even to a great extent those of us in the disenfranchised masses who are angry at what we see happen to our brothers, fathers, friends, and us do not deny that men , that SOME men are capable of horrific crimes, buit we all know many good men who are worth so much more than feminisim claims we are able to be. Its funny i havent thought about the jezzabel article in a long time and rereading it, and more specifically the comments section made my blood run cold as it was so full of glee at causing pain, at embracing the worst of what they claim men can do and being proud of it, as long as we keep using the truth , as long as we do what we are doing and stay the course we will succeed , and importantly we have an understanding that we are not perfect , that we are equal and not better right now the pigs are running the farm and are holding onto power, but the more they do , when the day comes that the windmil is destroyed, feminisim will fall by the wayside. The one final thing i wanted to comment on was the removal of comments on your blog, if hate to see that happen as discourse is always important while the articles are fantastic this site has built a community and i still stand by the thought that losing the comments section is one of the things that killed off sacks own website, even if it means getting moderators from your more trusted readers it would be folly to lose it .
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