A Toronto police officer is in hot water for comments he made about rape in a school. His choice of wording was awful, but it seems he intended to say that there is correlation between rape and the sexual attractiveness of the victim. As discussed below, his comments were widely denounced.
The rape milieu is so terribly politicized, and so terribly encrusted with layer upon layer of half-truths and outright lies, that we have reached a point where it is socially verboten to tell our daughters certain things they should know that could save them from calamity.
If our daughters digest the information typically disseminated by sexual assault counselors, they would believe that rape is nothing more than a crime of violence and that a rapist's sexual attraction has nothing whatsoever to do with it. They would logically conclude from this that women who are senior citizens, and whose beauty, by societal standards, has faded, should be targets of rape just as much as the hottest girl on campus.
In fact, "NCVS data reveal that rape victims tend to be young and that rapists prefer younger, presumably more attractive victims.” The data indicates that “younger offenders may be seeking sexual gratification . . ..” L. Siegel, Criminology at 294 (2008). Moreover: ". . . the correlation between age distribution of rape victims and the age of peak female sexual attractiveness is powerful evidence" of a sexual motivation for rape. R. Thornhill, C. Palmer, A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion at 139. See also 180-183 (2001). That examination of rape, written by a biologist and an antropologist, debunk the politiczed social science theory that "rape is a crime of violence but not of sex."
Nevertheless, the conventions of our modern age tell us it is improper to suggest to our daughters that being sexually attractive, and that efforts to make themselves sexually attractive, could increase their risk of being raped. These efforts are decried as "victim blaming."
Let's get a few things straight:
●No woman "asks" to be raped (because if she "asked" to be raped, it would be consensual sex).
●A rapist is never excused of responsibility for his crime merely by virtue of the way a woman looks or dresses.
●Being sexually attractive is not "bad" behavior, but all other things being equal, the more sexually attractive a woman is, the greater her chances of being raped.
Our daughters need to know the truth about the correlation between rape and sexual attraction. To suggest otherwise is to elevate political ideology over our daughters' safety.
Along these lines, a Toronto Police Officer has been forced to apologize, and has been disciplined, after he told a school forum that women’s attire can put them at risk of being attacked. "The policeman, who reportedly prefaced his comment by saying 'I’ve been told I shouldn’t say this,' instructed the audience that women should avoid 'dressing like sluts' if they wanted to be safe from sexual assault."
That, of course, was an awful choice of words, so poor, in fact, that it wasn't even accurate. A "slut" may or may not be sexually attractive, and the choice of wording suggests that efforts to be sexually attractive are morally wrong.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume his intent was to tell the students what we said above: that there is a correlation between rape and sexual attractiveness. He should have said just that. He could have added that this does not mean that rape is confined only to sexually attractive victims; but it does mean that sexually attractive young women are at greater risk of being raped.
But no matter how the police officer might have worded it, I suspect his message would have been met with angry denunciations. The truth about rape is not empowering. It can't be fitted into a feminist narrative. Women at most risk of being raped are young and sexually attractive. No, it's not fair. It's not politically correct. But it's true. And our daughters need to hear it.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
45 comments:
Meanwhile, the B.C. cop who kicked a compliant man in the face, won't face charges and isn't being made to apologize.
There has only been one charge, (I believe), in the case of police brutalizing citizens as they sat down to rest at the G20 summit in Toronto, (but many charges against citizens), oh and the B.C. cops who got the address wrong on a dv call and kicked the living crap out of an innocent man, weren't charged or expected to apologize.
So reassuring to know that womens feelings are more important than mens very lives.
Excellent point. Nothing forces apologies and humility more than a comment that women's groups don't like.
Why bother with the disclaimers?
You are bound to be demonized in any event.
"you raped my senses with your article, you raping raper."
I am seeing comments on this over at Reddit that are astouding. They suggest you are "blaming" the victim. In fact, this article goes out of its way not to "blame" anybody. It's merely pointing a correlation that the usual suspects don't like.
I don't like it either, it's not fair, but does that mean we pretend it doesn't exist?
I mean to say -- the only person this article "blames" is the rapist.
Male Resistance/Slavery:
Q: Where's the real power extracted from within a fascist government/corporate pyramidal society...?
A: The base - Men.
This is a world of extraction whereby men are reduced to that of a disposable tampon, parasitically dessicated and shamed down to sub-human status.
Slavery never ended, it became rule of Law.
The tragic irony is that we are all doing this to ourselves, one fascist-slunt, and one disposable-male at a time...
women should avoid 'dressing like sluts' if they wanted to be safe from sexual assault."
That, of course, was an awful choice of words, so poor, in fact, that it wasn't even accurate. A "slut" may or may not be sexually attractive, and the choice of wording suggests that efforts to be sexually attractive are morally wrong.
I agree with almost everything I've read that you've written but not this.
This is PC, academic nonsense. Everyone knows what "dressing like a slut" means. It's not the same think as dressing and getting oneself ups so as to be pretty and attractive.
Dressing like a slut means dressing in a highly sexually suggestive manner. It's also context dependent. What is merely very sexy and a common style of dressing for a nightclub would be really slutty in an office environment, or to wear for long walks at night on city streets, certainly if not protected by a man or group.
Now simply saying "dressed like a slut" isn't a politic thing to say in front of a group that's sure to include a lot of feminists. At the very least he should have prefaced it.
A less incendiary way of putting it would have been to dress in sexually very suggestive manner is risky unless lots of other women around you are dressed similarly and there are people around to protect you.
"Every study reveals that rape is primarily a young man's crime, and that rape victimization peaks in the late teens to early twenties."
True enough, but if your range is going to include "early twenties" then it would also include earlier teens. Depending on the type of average, the integer value is either 17 or 18. Perhaps by sheer coincidence, it's the only thing on which crime statistics and feminist surveys agree.
"but all other things being equal, the more sexually attractive a woman is, the greater her chances of being raped."
While some people, such as those you quoted, want to equate age with attractiveness, there is no study of which I'm aware that ever evaluated the sexual attractiveness of rape victims. Certainly, the justice system has never collected such data. So rather, all other things being equal, it is the age of a woman that most determines her chances of being raped.
"A less incendiary way of putting it would have been to dress in sexually very suggestive manner is risky unless lots of other women around you are dressed similarly and there are people around to protect you."
That would have been a better way to put it, but there is no evidence to support that either.
Is this blaming the victim?
I'm sure women are going to proclaim "I should be able to dress however I want and not get raped!"
Sure. Just like I should be able to walk down the streets of Harlem wearing a pointy white hood and not come back in a body bag.
The difference between me and those women is that I'm smart enough to realize there's a difference between "should" and "will"
Demonspawn, I know it's not right, but I laughed out loud at your analogy. Excellent.
Look, here's the bottom line. I "get" the whole thing about how unfair it is to focus on the WOMAN'S behavior as opposed to the rapist's. It is unfair. But that's the whole thing: I, and most other innocent men, have precisely zero ability to stop rape. Women have more control over it than I do. Cause, see, I don't buy into this rape coninuum stuff where, somehow, if I glance at the Swimsuit issue (out this week) I am helping to promote rape. And, no, I've never hung around with guys who are looking to score by getting a woman so drunk she can't think for herself.
I can't stop arsonists, or burglars, or false rape claimants, either. Somehow, some people think that because I'm a guy I can help stop rape.
Wow!
"While some people, such as those you quoted, want to equate age with attractiveness, there is no study of which I'm aware that ever evaluated the sexual attractiveness of rape victims."
Ever see a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition? Playboy? Penthouse? Ever see the women Hef hangs with?
What age are the women? Seriously?
Not scientific enough for ya?
You know, I don't mean any disrespect to you, but you sound like a lot of feminists who lose all common sense at the slightest hint of gender issues.
Almost any hetero male capable of an erection would agree that a 20-year-old woman is, on average, more sexually attractive than a 60-year-old. You need a study for that? Come on, pal!
So, sue me for being both politically incorrect AND unscientific, but it's a fact, and you know it.
"Almost any hetero male capable of an erection would agree that a 20-year-old woman is, on average, more sexually attractive than a 60-year-old. You need a study for that? Come on, pal!"
That's not even a subject open to debate. With my deepest apologies to all the 60 year olds.
But Pierce, what's your "methodology" for that? Isn't that what these fuckers always bring up?
My methodology is in my pants. It's called the hard-on test.
Archivist, as for 12:05 comment: it is rare to have a reader be both an idiot and an asshole at the same time.
Ha! That IS the kind of thing progressives would waste our money on: a study to tell which is more sexually attractive: a 20-year-old woman or a 60-year-old woman. Everyone dick-owing human being knows the answer to that.
Doug1 is full of shit, too. A "slut" is not sexually attractive to real men.
No, Doug1 made some good points.
I just saw a preview for a movie coming out;
"Red Riding Hood"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1486185/
This movie is not a cartoon. My bey it is a feminist version of the fairy tale.
Archivist said...
"While some people, such as those you quoted, want to equate age with attractiveness, there is no study of which I'm aware that ever evaluated the sexual attractiveness of rape victims."
Ever see a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition? Playboy? Penthouse? Ever see the women Hef hangs with?
What age are the women? Seriously?
Not scientific enough for ya?
You know, I don't mean any disrespect to you, but you sound like a lot of feminists who lose all common sense at the slightest hint of gender issues.
Almost any hetero male capable of an erection would agree that a 20-year-old woman is, on average, more sexually attractive than a 60-year-old. You need a study for that? Come on, pal!
So, sue me for being both politically incorrect AND unscientific, but it's a fact, and you know it.
Feb 18, 2011 12:48:00 PM
I know you have heard of fetishes. There are some men who are attracted to one "exteme" or the other. I am not demonizing porn ( I used to work at an adult book store. There are males who have a fetish for "grannys'" ( women aged 40 and above just as there are females who have the same type of fetish for "grandpas'".
I am not arguing with you. True rapists of both genders are attracted to whomever they find attractive/sexually appealing or, have a desire to exert their power/control over. Contrary to the feminist lie that rape is not about sex but, all about control. Some males and females have rape fantasies. You might be surprised by how many men and women buy from the myriad of "rape porn" videos/magazines. There were more women buying videos from the book store I worked in, that portrayed more males as "rape victims" ( the second choice of most women was buying women-on-women/women-on-girl "rape victims)the number of men who bought this type of porn were exteemely rare. I digress. In our current society, sex is considered to be as neccessary as air, water and, food. Let me also state; more women bought movies that mixed sex and violence than men ( who bought movies that did not have any violence in them, except gay sex movies. IMHO, what a man/woman finds sexually attractive depends, to one or more degrees, on wether they have a fetish/"fetish" for.
Archivist, I wouldn't sue you for being politically correct, even if I could. I am the same anonymous who posted the post regarding fetishes. After reading your posts/articles, I know I can safely say; You have no (absolutely NO/NONE/ZERO propensity for any sexual activity that includes rape/sexual violence what-so-ever). This speaks highly, and honorably for you.
Archivist said...
Demonspawn, I know it's not right, but I laughed out loud at your analogy. Excellent.
Look, here's the bottom line. I "get" the whole thing about how unfair it is to focus on the WOMAN'S behavior as opposed to the rapist's. It is unfair. But that's the whole thing: I, and most other innocent men, have precisely zero ability to stop rape. Women have more control over it than I do. Cause, see, I don't buy into this rape coninuum stuff where, somehow, if I glance at the Swimsuit issue (out this week) I am helping to promote rape. And, no, I've never hung around with guys who are looking to score by getting a woman so drunk she can't think for herself.
I can't stop arsonists, or burglars, or false rape claimants, either. Somehow, some people think that because I'm a guy I can help stop rape.
Wow!
Feb 18, 2011 12:45:00 PM
Good points and I agree with you.
"Not scientific enough for ya?"
No, not in the least.
"Almost any hetero male capable of an erection would agree that a 20-year-old woman is, on average, more sexually attractive than a 60-year-old. You need a study for that? Come on, pal!"
Come on, you have nothing but a red herring to defend your position? No one said anything about 60-year-olds. They are way at the flat end of the curve. What we do know is that the age of rape victims drops exponentially past its average. Is a 23-year-old that much less attractive than a 18-year-old to any hetero male capable of an erection? Because that's your argument, that these women from SI are too old to be attractive:
Shannan Click 27
Brooklyn Decker 23
Cintia Dicker 24
Jessica Gomes 25
Izabel Goulart 26
Julie Henderson 24
It could be that older women engage in less risky behavior than teenage girls. It could be like most predators, rapists prey on the weak. If you want to drag senior citizens into this, they are disproportionately likely to be victims of property crime, and it's not because people on living on Social Security in bad neighborhoods have more property.
"You know, I don't mean any disrespect to you, but you sound like a lot of feminists who lose all common sense at the slightest hint of gender issues."
Ad hominem aside, you are the one making an ipse dixit assertion. And who do we know does that?
"So, sue me for being both politically incorrect AND unscientific, but it's a fact, and you know it."
No, suing people would be your business. In my world, facts are supported by evidence. So unless you have some, you don't have an argument.
"Archivist, as for 12:05 comment: it is rare to have a reader be both an idiot and an asshole at the same time."
Apparently, not.
Sexual attractiveness is obviously correlated with rape.This would explain why there are thousands of cases of black on white rapes but hardly any cases of white on black rapes.Another PC topic that is taboo.
So, are women supposed to make themselves less attractive just because some men cannot control themselves?
Personally, I think that rape is more about sexual gratification than 'power' or the other things that people make it out to be about, and that if we would legalize things such as prostitution, we would see LESS rapes when it came down to brass tacks.
Anonymous said...
Sexual attractiveness is obviously correlated with rape.This would explain why there are thousands of cases of black on white rapes but hardly any cases of white on black rapes.Another PC topic that is taboo.
_________________
Not taboo... REJECTED because it is a lie. In fact, I would say that there are more white male on black female rapes than black male on white female rapes when it comes down to it.
If you look at a black woman and change her color to white using a photographic software, she does NOT become any less attractive.
Same thing in the inverse with a white woman and the color changed to black.
So, are women supposed to make themselves less attractive just because some men cannot control themselves?
That's one option. Another is carry for personal defense. Another is to not go to parties where rapes are likely to happen.
But, the ultimate "solution" is to grow the fuck up and realize that being alive and living takes risks, realizing what level of risk you are comfortable with, and live your life accordingly. The only way to be "perfectly safe" is to be dead.
You can't control others, only yourself.
"So, are women supposed to make themselves less attractive just because some men cannot control themselves?"
Sigh.
First, didn't I ban you? Man, are you lucky I am so forgiving.
Second, look, they reap far more benefits than detriments in being attractive, in case you haven't noticed.
Christopher,I've never seen a single crime study that showed that there were more cases of white men raping black women than the other way around.White on black rape is an extremely unusual crime.There are years that go by where not a single case like that is reported to police.If you can find such a study let me know.Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangum turned out to be false.
"Not taboo... REJECTED because it is a lie. In fact, I would say that there are more white male on black female rapes than black male on white female rapes when it comes down to it."
This is obviously nonsense, but no doubt you are trying to provoke a racial debate in an attempt to create further divisions among us.
This is textbook trolling. Publish inaccurate or absurd claims in the aim of derailing a thread.
Pierce, we really need to ban the trolls. A lot of people will say or do anything to either distract us or derail our mission. We can't afford to give them any opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if some feminist forums organize these troll raids.
Feb 19, 2011 3:41:00 AM
I agree, it definitely sounds trollish.
As arguments, both "sides" are begging the question with the unfounded and racist accusation that women of color are not attractive.
Historically, we know that there was white on black rape, with masters raping their slaves, significant enough that most African-Americans have European blood. We also know that a significant number of black on white rape accusations were false and racially motivated.
"Second, look, they reap far more benefits than detriments in being attractive, in case you haven't noticed."
No doubt people reap benefits from being attractive, but there isn't any reason to believe that it comes with an increased chance of being raped, or that rape is motivated by sexual attraction.
"So, are women supposed to make themselves less attractive just because some men cannot control themselves?"
Are men supposed to not wear Armani suits in the ghetto because some poor people are willing to kill for one? That would be the smart thing to do, yes.
"No doubt people reap benefits from being attractive, but there isn't any reason to believe that it comes with an increased chance of being raped, or that rape is motivated by sexual attraction."
Then why aren't there a bunch of stories in the news about elderly or disfigured women being raped that can conclusively be proven true?
You feminists like to pretend it's about power and control, and that's because your own rapacious urges are motivated by power and control, it's projection. I'll put it this way, of all the women I know who have DEFINITELY been raped (a very small number), as in went to the hospital with internal bleeding raped, ALL of them were at least mildly attractive. No obese women, no elderly women, no hunchbacked or disfigured women. No women who were hideous at all.
All of them were somewhat attractive.
Is that conclusive? Of course not, but I tend to believe what I see, and what my friends tell me, and feminists aren't my friends.
"there isn't any reason to believe . . . that rape is motivated by sexual attraction."
Naah, rapists just single out women who are of the age when WOMEN ARE MOST SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
That's what happens when you feed people's heads with feminist bullshit for 30 years. They become raving lunatics.
Personally, I'd prefer if rape were motivated a crazed penchant for violence without any sexual attraction, for a variety of reasons. But that viewpoint defies common sense.
The whole thing is soooooooooo stupid. If I walk around in $2000 suits, wearing a rolex and gold rings I'm more likely to draw more muggers than if I do so in a pair of jeans and a sweatshirt. If I go out to bars flashing large bills wearing expensive clothes and jewelry I'm more likely to draw the attention of extortionists in the form of gold diggers and false rape accusers. If I search for a girlfriend on Ashley Madison web site I'm likely not to draw the attention of unfaithful women. Common sense people. Many women, and especially feminists, want all the goodies and none of the responsibility.
"Personally, I'd prefer if rape were motivated a crazed penchant for violence without any sexual attraction, for a variety of reasons. But that viewpoint defies common sense."
Frankly, I don't see how it defies common sense, but so far, you haven't given me anything besides ignoratio elenchi and a sassy attitude. That does nothing to demonstrate what clearly ignores the facts.
You seem to be basing this on a correlation between age and sexual attractiveness. No one is denying that correlation. Yet there are countless things that can be correlated with age, from income to blood pressure. While there are many possible explanations why the number of rape victims suddenly drops past a certain age. Unless you think a women rapidly loses her looks in her early twenties, physical attractiveness isn't one of them. Because that simply does not fit the data. Some having a more anthropological viewpoint, have suggested that rapists are more likely to want to target virgins. It's plausible, but only in theory.
If rape were motivated by sexual attractiveness, then the most sexually attractive women would be most likely to be raped. But no one has ever noticed that. I've never heard of experienced detectives doubting a claim because the alleged victim wasn't good-looking enough.
The problem here is that you want to fathom what you believe is a rational motive to explain irrational behavior. You are trying to place rapists with thieves and drug dealers, rather than pyromaniacs and serial killers. Rape is not stealing sex. By trying to attribute a normal motive to extremely abnormal behavior, you are buying into the feminist notion that rape is just one end of a continuum of normal male heterosexuality. It isn't.
Regardless, if you are going to make public statements about something as serious as violent crime, then you have an ethical obligation to be as truthful as possible. I find it socially irresponsible to tell less attractive teenagers that they are less likely to be raped. While I understand the political desire to disregard the incongruent, ironically, your position on this topic doesn't even seem to suit your agenda.
To get back on topic, who is it who is the enemy of this police offier?
The same people who would be praising him if he were following their metanarratives/programming?
Anonymous
Feb 20, 2011 10:38:00 AM
Who are you? Are you a feminist prosecutor?
"Rape is not stealing sex. By trying to attribute a normal motive to extremely abnormal behavior, you are buying into the feminist notion that rape is just one end of a continuum of normal male heterosexuality. It isn't."
Non-sequitur. One can accept that rape is motivated by sex without accepting that it is a part of normal male heterosexuality. Rape is a kind of sexual disorder or perversion, in the same way that pedophilia or some extreme paraphilias are. Moreover, rape is not an extension of normal male heterosexuality because most men cannot sustain an erection and perform adequately in a violent and stressful situation. And most men are usually aroused by the belief that the woman is also aroused and really wants it, while the belief that the woman doesn't want it is a big turnoff.
"You seem to be basing this on a correlation between age and sexual attractiveness. No one is denying that correlation. Yet there are countless things that can be correlated with age, from income to blood pressure."
This is pedantry at its most tedious. Of course, technically correlation does not prove causation, especially when there are other variables. But when there is a correlation between two things, and common sense dictates a causal link between the two, it is hardly unreasonable to make the connection.
"While there are many possible explanations why the number of rape victims suddenly drops past a certain age. Unless you think a women rapidly loses her looks in her early twenties, physical attractiveness isn't one of them. Because that simply does not fit the data. Some having a more anthropological viewpoint, have suggested that rapists are more likely to want to target virgins. It's plausible, but only in theory."
Just because there are other causes that also contribute does not mean that attractiveness is also a factor. You seem to be putting forward a false mutual exclusivity. i.e. it must be either ALL this factor or ALL that.
You also don't seem to realize that in biological and evolutionary terms, attractiveness in women is largely a proxy for youth and fertility. Men are naturally more attracted to the women who are most likely to offer the best chance of reproducing their genes.
"I find it socially irresponsible to tell less attractive teenagers that they are less likely to be raped."
Go debate your inanity somewhere else. Sorry that we interfere with your goofy feminist cult with our common sense.
Nick S, thank you for your response. There have been some incredibly loud dumb comments here, with nothing but silly strawmen and personal attacks. Although I do find being called a feminist particularly amusing, when these commenters are the ones being "feminist", both in their position and manner of presentation.
"Non-sequitur. One can accept that rape is motivated by sex without accepting that it is a part of normal male heterosexuality. Rape is a kind of sexual disorder or perversion, in the same way that pedophilia or some extreme paraphilias are. Moreover, rape is not an extension of normal male heterosexuality because most men cannot sustain an erection and perform adequately in a violent and stressful situation. And most men are usually aroused by the belief that the woman is also aroused and really wants it, while the belief that the woman doesn't want it is a big turnoff."
Saying "rape is motivated by sex" is almost meaningless. Obviously, rapists are motivated to have "sex" with their victims. That is not the same thing as saying rapists are motivated by physical attractiveness.
While I certainly would not akin rape to paraphilia, otherwise I agree with you. Rape is the result of extremely abnormal psychology. So why assume normal motives, such as physical attraction, which can only serve to normalize rapists?
"But when there is a correlation between two things, and common sense dictates a causal link between the two, it is hardly unreasonable to make the connection."
Except, statistically, there is no correlation. Nor have I heard this "common sense" explanation how there is a causal link between the two. If rapists are not motivated by physical attractiveness, then how is it just "common sense" that they are?
"Just because there are other causes that also contribute does not mean that attractiveness is also a factor. You seem to be putting forward a false mutual exclusivity. i.e. it must be either ALL this factor or ALL that."
No, I'm not putting forth that at all. There are multiple factors. Which I have already stated. What I am saying that there is no evidence that physical attractiveness is one of those factors. Not once have I ever even heard anyone make the casual observation that rape victims are particularly attractive. Such a claim might make sense to you, but it is completely unsubstantiated.
"While there are many possible explanations why the number of rape victims suddenly drops past a certain age. Unless you think a women rapidly loses her looks in her early twenties, physical attractiveness isn't one of them. Because that simply does not fit the data. "
What data are we talking of here?
"But no one has ever noticed that. I've never heard of experienced detectives doubting a claim because the alleged victim wasn't good-looking enough."
This line of reasoning sounds amusing when considering the present article details the amount of hysteria a simple statement has generated.
I don't know that I agree with this attractiveness vs/ unattractive argument.
Frankly, I never see attractive women in anti rape marches, or take back the night rallies.
It's mostly normal to not so hot to downright homely that seem to have a rape problem.
But that's just my observation.
As a mother of 3, 2 daughters and a son, I wholeheartedly applaud your attempt to insert some common sense into the subject.
I don't expect people with their minds set to listen, because they're programmed to react without thinking... but you really hit the nail on the head.
The first time I ever tried to discuss this topic with anyone online - back in '97 on AOL on the "conservative pagan" message board, I got flamed by a guy who claimed to be a rape counselor. His beef? By stating that women should empower ourselves with street smarts and self-defense knowledge, I was "blaming the victim."
Over the years, I've learned to turn that argument around on 'em. I'm not blaming the victim. They're insisting on deliberately sacrificing women's personal safety just to prove a political point, and I don't feel like they have the right to tell me or my kids that we are required to make that sacrifice for their political agenda.
Post a Comment