The following news story is fresh off the press this afternoon. It is yet further proof that when it comes to sex crimes, women are from Venus, a kind and forgiving place that resembles a posh day spa, and men are from Mars, which is akin to the Tadmor Prison in Syria, where the bloodthirsty guards butcher inmates with axes.
As you read the story, reverse the genders and try not to laugh, or get sick, as you try to imagine anything remotely similar happening if a man were in the woman's place. Read it to the end, because the best is saved for last.
A 43-year-old woman named Cassandra Sproch pleaded guilty this afternoon to trying to seduce her son's teenage friends and plying them with wine. The state claimed that Ms. Sproch hosted her son and three of his friends for dinner last November 15. Ms. Sproch did what any self-respecting mother would do: she dressed seductively, gave all the boys wine, and flirted with them, according to Deputy District Attorney Laura Ditka.
According to one news account: "When the teens went into another room to play video games, she called the 15-year-old boy upstairs, police said, touched him and offered to have sex with him." The boy refused, so after continued requests, she got the 16-year-old to go upstairs with her. Here's how one news account described what happened:: "Ms. Sproch was accused of taking a 16-year-old boy into her bedroom. When the other teens went searching for their friend, they found him in her room. She had him pinned against a wall and was kissing him. Ms. Ditka said Ms. Sproch also touched the boy's groin. Her son and another 15-year-old boy pulled their friend from the room, and they left Ms. Sproch's house."
Did you get that? She pinned a boy up against the wall, kissed him, and touched his groin.
What do you think her sentence was? Yep. 18 months probation, on 14 total counts, including endangering the welfare of children, corruption of minors, indecent assault, false imprisonment and furnishing alcohol to minors.
What do you suppose an adult male would have gotten if he had pleaded guilty to doing these exact things to four teenage girls?
And what do you suppose would happen to him behind bars during his lengthy prison sentence?
But wait. It gets better: "[Ms. Sproch's] defense attorney, Patrick Thomassey, blamed what happened on the woman being lonely and drunk."
Again, reverse the genders: do you think the newspaper would have even printed that awful excuse?
But Mr. Thomassey isn't finished: "She does not have a specific recollection of the evening, as she drank two bottles of wine," he said.
And this is supposed to help her?
Just wait -- remember I told you to read it to the end because the best was saved for last. Here it is: "Mr. Thomassey went on to say that what happened with the boys is like a 'rite of passage.'"
Read it again. I'm not making that up.
He continued: "'I'd have kept my mouth shut, and said, 'wow' to my buddies,' he told Allegheny County Judge David R. Cashman. 'No one got hurt. There has been no inference this has affected them in a negative way.'"
Another news account quotes learned defense counsel: “Had I been one of those guys it would never have gone this far because I would have kept my mouth shut and said, ‘Wow’ to my buddies. . . . . There’s a big difference between boys and girls. To boys what happened is a rite of passage. It doesn’t have the effect on young men as it has on young women. Guys deal with stuff.”
Great advice, Mr. Thomassey! Let me see if I can summarize: if you are a teen male, and are the victim of a sex crime at the hands of a woman, keep your mouth shut, and be thankful for the erection.
The district attorney, Ms. Ditka, refuted Mr. Thomassey's enlightened comments: "When it's a woman offender on a boy, it's an atta boy. When it's a man offender on a girl, it's the horror of all horrors. I don't see a difference. These are impressionable children."
Good for you, Ms. Ditka. Now if only the courts, not to mention learned defense counsel, would only understand what you just said.
Links: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11012/1117423-100.stm and http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_717858.html
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35 comments:
Sickening double standard.
Get off your high horse and realize that a women is not capable of raping a boy... aside from gearing up a strap-on and sodomizing the poor kid...
Wake up and realize that it IS different for men and women. For a man can overpower a 16 y/o girl and rape her, forever effecting her for the rest of her life. A women isn't going to get anything from a guy if he's not into it...
But lets not forget every 16 y/o boy is a perfect little angel. And its also common knowledge that any male can be scared into having an erection...
In case this fly's totally over your head.. NOTE THE SARCASM!
I love this headline:
"Fired Pa. teacher flirted with son's teen friends"
http://www.timesleader.com/news/ap?articleID=6271916
It's like I'm reading the Onion.
"Arizona enthusiast enjoys day of shooting"
Maybe we'll be hearing from Jared Loughner's attorney how "anyone can have a bad day" or "he's just not a people person".
"Get off your high horse and realize that a women is not capable of raping a boy... aside from gearing up a strap-on and sodomizing the poor kid..."
Would that make it a "good rape"?
"NOTE THE SARCASM!"
In the absence of facts and reason there is always that. And don't forget condescension and dismissiveness. Thanks for stopping by.
Damn right, Anon at 5:54!
Now the mere fact that in case after case after case, teen girls willingly engage adult males in sex and there is precisely zero overpowering of the teen girl by the adult male doesn't diminish your argument in the least. Your logic is perfectly sound, because girls are pure and holy and must be protected at all costs. Boys are sexual predators, and they should be thankful for the woody.
I'd go so far as to say that by age 12, every male should have an adult woman come in and fuck the shit out of him. Because you are absolutely correct: if the lucky teen stud has an erection, why of course that means he "wants" it (the fact that men who are hanged also routinely have erections must mean they "wanted" it, too).
Thanks for your enlightenment. I must say, I am surprised that someone who landed here in a time machine from 1920 knows how the Internet works. Congratulations!
From what I read - the boys said "no".
That does not sound like a "rite of passage".
It sounds like "no means no".
...it this to say 16 year old girls can't give consent, while 16 year old boys can't refuse consent?
Please note: Every single arrest from a perverted American law enforcement, of an innocent man or boy, on a false accusation, serves to further "Empower" the American gender-raunch community. Every single one!!!!
American law enforcement did not always "manufacture faulty and inflammatory statistics", they just stared doing it around 30-40 years ago.
This "manufactured faulty and inflammatory statistics" is unconstitutional, but the perverts who now have full hegemony over American academia, are not gonna bite the hand that feeds them "Empowerment".
So glad you've named & shamed this disgraceful attorney.
Jan 12, 2011 7:15:00 PM
Broken record is broken.
Is this attorney touting for business or sexual pleasure? Whith all these female teachers being caught for sex with their students he is going to be inundated with female sex case clients after this ROFLMAO.
We can discuss pick and probe at the problem till were blue in the face; but eventually someone has to point out a solution.
Jan 12, 2011 7:44:00 PM
The solution is gender equality. Men and women should be punished the same for the same crimes.
Is this attorney for real? I mean seriously? 'Rite of passage' he says? LOL! What fucking lowlife guy wants middle aged women like Tammie Sue Benson-Whitehead initiating boys of any age into sex?
Oregon woman arrested after failing to register with sex offender list
http://thegazette.com/2010/09/30/oregon-woman-who-failed-to-register-with-sex-offender-list-was-arrested-in-west-union/
Seriously, this attorney need his head examining.
Part I...
Get off your high horse and realize that a women is not capable of raping a boy...
Odd. So that experience I had as a child wasn't rape. Suffering all the same symptomology as a female victim isn't enough, eh?
Rape is an act involving penetration. It doesn't matter which end of the process one is at.
aside from gearing up a strap-on and sodomizing the poor kid...
It doesn't matter if they do. Woman in Ballarat a year ago got no jail time for getting a fourteen year old boy drunk so she could penetrate him with a Coke bottle.
Wake up and realize that it IS different for men and women. For a man can overpower a 16 y/o girl and rape her, forever effecting her for the rest of her life. A women isn't going to get anything from a guy if he's not into it...
Wrong. Counsellors and psychologists who work with victims will assert that the female perps do MORE long term harm. And get this. YOU are part of the reason for this. You haven't a clue what you're talking about and yet here you are spouting your ignorance.
The adult / teenager situations tend to be pretty much the same regardless of gender. Perps groom their victims in the same ways. Victims suffer pretty much the same consequences.
Might interest you to know that the eagerness you suggest can actually be a source of significant difficulty and confusion later on.
There have been quite a few women who have experienced orgasms during particularly unwelcome and violent rapes. Erection is analogous for males. It occurs as a physiological response often beyond the individual's control. The sense of one's body betraying one's self in those circumstances can be very problematic.
It's a similar situation long term with that eagerness to which you refer. Boys, in particular, are subject to very powerful social pressures telling them that they MUST want it else they are "pussies" or gay. You can see that attitude much on display all over place.
Part II...
But lets not forget every 16 y/o boy is a perfect little angel.
Irrelevant.
And its also common knowledge that any male can be scared into having an erection...**
It's not actually common knowledge. But it is actually true. Men fighting in wars have reported erections at times when they were experiencing abject terror. Men being hung ie executed produce erections. They occur during sleep. They occur travelling on the bus. It's a physiological response. It can be cause by simple changes in blood pressure or distribution. It is never necessarily under the male's control as many teenage boys would be aware. How come you aren't.
In case this fly's totally over your head.. NOTE THE SARCASM!
Not mine. I am the fly. I'm the fly on the wall at the rape crisis centre urging everyone and everything towards a rational, balanced, fair approach.
** I wrote something about fear yesterday. I was trying to convey something of the impact of a particular time in my childhood. It was in response to a woman's sarcasm and her condescending references to myself in terms such as "sweety"...
That familiar, intimate language – eg sweety – isn’t received by me as simply condescending. Oh, that it were! It triggers powerful, physical, fearful reactions. It was part of the coaxing my aunt used when she wanted to avail herself of my seven and eight year old body. I’ve never since handled being addressed that way at all well.
Wanna know about fear? My quite overweight aunt smothered me. Not deliberately. She was just a lot bigger than a seven year old, on top, vigourous and oblivious to my almost suffocating. All my life I’ve experienced flashbacks and nightmares. The nightmares in particular are horrific. Imagine being compressed inside a motile, organic substance that even protrudes into your orifices, particularly your mouth. The only analogy I can draw is that of being digested alive. It’s accompanied by severe grinding of my teeth. I’d wake up with bits of teeth in my mouth(I have fewer than half of them left), blood all over my pillow from lacerating my tongue and the inside of my cheeks and a sense of terror like all the horror movies you’ve ever seen rolled into one. And then squared.
I’ve spent some time there today.
I said earlier...
Rape is an act involving penetration. It doesn't matter which end of the process one is at.
View it in the context of what I just wrote.
Part II...
But lets not forget every 16 y/o boy is a perfect little angel.
Irrelevant.
And its also common knowledge that any male can be scared into having an erection...**
It's not actually common knowledge. But it is actually true. Men fighting in wars have reported erections at times when they were experiencing abject terror. Men being hung ie executed produce erections. They occur during sleep. They occur travelling on the bus. It's a physiological response. It can be cause by simple changes in blood pressure or distribution. It is never necessarily under the male's control as many teenage boys would be aware. How come you aren't.
In case this fly's totally over your head.. NOTE THE SARCASM!
Not mine. I am the fly. I'm the fly on the wall at the rape crisis centre urging everyone and everything towards a rational, balanced, fair approach.
Part III...
** I wrote something about fear yesterday. I was trying to convey something of the impact of a particular time in my childhood. It was in response to a woman's sarcasm and her condescending references to myself in terms such as "sweety"...
That familiar, intimate language – eg sweety – isn’t received by me as simply condescending. Oh, that it were! It triggers powerful, physical, fearful reactions. It was part of the coaxing my aunt used when she wanted to avail herself of my seven and eight year old body. I’ve never since handled being addressed that way at all well.
Wanna know about fear? My quite overweight aunt smothered me. Not deliberately. She was just a lot bigger than a seven year old, on top, vigourous and oblivious to my almost suffocating. All my life I’ve experienced flashbacks and nightmares. The nightmares in particular are horrific. Imagine being compressed inside a motile, organic substance that even protrudes into your orifices, particularly your mouth. The only analogy I can draw is that of being digested alive. It’s accompanied by severe grinding of my teeth. I’d wake up with bits of teeth in my mouth(I have fewer than half of them left), blood all over my pillow from lacerating my tongue and the inside of my cheeks and a sense of terror like all the horror movies you’ve ever seen rolled into one. And then squared.
I’ve spent some time there today.
I said earlier...
Rape is an act involving penetration. It doesn't matter which end of the process one is at.
View it in the context of what I just wrote.
Some facts:-
The harm female perpetrators can inflict has been found in at least three pieces of research undertaken with male rapists identifying that a significant number record being sexually abused by older women when they were children. For example, Groth’s (31) study suggested that 66% of his sample had been victimized by a female perpetrator. Petrovich and Templar’s study (32) on male rapists showed that over 50% of their respondents disclosed sexual abuse by an older female. Briere & Smiljanich’s self-report study (33) found that:
… among the sexually abused men who reported sexual aggression against women, 80% had been sexually abused during childhood by a female perpetrator. In other words, sexual activity during childhood with an older female strongly predicted later sexual aggression against adult women and childhood sexual victimization by females is a particular risk factor for later assault directed at adult female victims. (34)
31) N. Groth, Men Who Rape (New York: Plenum, 1978).
32) M. Petrovich and D. Templar, ‘Heterosexual Molestation of Children Who Later Become Rapists’, (1984) Psychological Reports 54, p.810.
33) J. Briere and K. Smilijanich, ‘Childhood Sexual Abuse and Subsequent Sexual Aggression against Adult Women’ [Paper presented at the 101st Annual Convention of the American Psychological Association, Toronto, Canada, August, 1993.]
34) Summarised in Mendel, The Male Survivor, p.62. See fn.27.
Thank you, Gwallan. You are someone whose voice on this issue must be listened to.
Women of this nature are praised - they are called "cougars" instead of "pedophiles".
I wonder when this will end...
I guess I wouldn't mind the socio-sexual double standard so much if the sexes weren't equal in the eyes of the law.
However, we all know the latter is true, and the double-standard remains in place, resulting in the application of the law in a patently unequal fashion.
If we aren't going to return post-haste to a patriarchal model of society...and I don't see that coming any time soon...then we need men's lib, like, yesterday.
Gwallan, I am aware of all that -- it was cleared up. I know this will strike some as odd, but he has a fine reputation, and has done a great deal of good for men accused of crimes. I do not condone his statements here, advocacy or no.
@Archivist...
OK. I couldn't find anything exonerating him. My devotion to professional ethics is more important to me than anything. Including the victim advocacy.
I admit to having a problem with the legal profession in toto. I view them as liars and distorters of truth for profit. His performance in this case has done nothing to dispel that view.
He's a defence lawyer. It's his job to defend. But what he did in this case didn't amount to mere defence. He went beyond that into territory that harms. It was ignorant and unnecessary.
His presenting a case based on the emotional imbalance of the perpetrator I can understand. It's normal for any female accused and mostly problematic because it's so gendered.
He's gone beyond that and as such the reputation you refer to deserves to be significantly diminished.
I wonder if he's ever done the same with a male client. Bear in mind that more than half of convicted male sex offenders against women were, themselves, abused by women when younger. Arguably he has, through adding to the broader prejudices, contributed to the creation of rape.
Gwallan, I think that a lot of men and women of his generation believe the same things. It is hurtful, and ignorant, based on the things you and other knowledgable people report. I, too, have a dim view of the legal profession, of which I am a part. But I do know some very upstanding lawyers who would sooner lose a client than lie.
ScareCrow, I am going to steal your "cougar" definition for my next "Battle of the Sexes" list. Excellent.
Wake up and realize that it IS different for men and women
Of course it is, women criminals have been getting a free ride for a long time now. Rape? Murder? Easy to get off.
"Wake up and realize that it IS different for men and women."
Others have advanced arguments rebutting this, but there is yet more harm done simply by having double standards.
As long as women are immune from legal penalty for doing what a man would be penalized for, they have no appreciation of the severity of the punishment and its appropriateness. They can demand all manner of insane retributions from the safety of knowing their view of 'justice' will never be applied to them.
Law cannot have moral authority if those prosecuting it refuse to be also subject to it - and by explicitly exempting themselves from penalty, women are tacitly admitting that they believe the laws are too harsh.
@Archivist...
You are someone whose voice on this issue must be listened to.
I'm actually a bit privileged compared to most survivors. My upbringing exposed me to all the movers and shakers in my region. I've ended up reasonably well connected politically as a consequence. In addition I have a stronger personality than most.
I grew up in amongst the heartland of the patriarchy. Notwithstanding feminist ranting about that "eeeevil" patriarchy the enduring lesson I learned from those men - and not a few women - was that one is obliged to use one’s gifts for others.
It shouldn't be up to victims to do the advocacy. But in the absence of any real outside effort or interest and, sometimes, in the presence of serious opposition there is virtually nobody else. I have the skills and knowledge to do those things even if I'm not up to it a hundred percent of the time(as you saw earlier). So I do.
I mentioned encouraging our rape crisis network into more rational thinking and approaches. Earlier rape activism on behalf of women depended too much on emotive argument and generating outrage. Much of that is still with us. I consider it counter-productive. For a long time I've been pushing the notion that if we truly want to act preventatively it's imperative to be rational in our thinking and fair to all victims. You'll be pleased to know I'm gaining traction.
What you are doing IS a part of that broader rationality. I've mentioned previously the very similar long term impact on victims of rape AND false accusations. Both are sexually based crimes and both have enormous potential to create unnecessary shame in their victims. It's a powerful and potentially deadly emotion. The falsely accused experience it in spades.
Understand that what you do WILL contribute in the long run to preventing rape. For that I thank you.
So this, which is fundamental to my personal philosophy...
The cost to me of having the privilege of skills and knowledge is the obligation to use them.
...applies to you too. Possibly even more so than I.
I'm sorry but I find this attorney & his supporters to be extremely ignorant on this issue:-
Child Exploitation & Online Protection Centre (CEOP) Cop Talks About Social Stigma Faced By Boys Who Are Sexually Abused By Women
http://www.twitvid.com/56361
"Erection is analogous for males."
Actually, the comparative physiological response would be the engorgement the vulva. So to take the troll's argument further, if a girl was "wet" then she was "into it"?
"Woman seduces teen boys, gets probation, and her attorney pooh-poohs what happened as a 'rite of passage'"
Based on the articles, I even find that headline misleading, as she didn't "seduce" the boys. She may have tried, but they called the cops. "Woman molests teen boys..." would have been much more accurate.
Here is another great headline:
"Mother, teacher given probation for offering sex to teens"
http://www.timesonline.com/bct_news/news_details/article/1373/2011/january/12/mother-teacher-pleads-guilty-to-offering-sex-to-teens.html
Offering sex? If this were a 43-year-old man and a 15-year-old girl, it would be "attempted rape".
That feminists would defend this woman shows us what morally-bankrupt hypocrites they are.
We the people of the United States have the right to life , liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness. We have a right to assemble and protest. We have a right to barage the White House, State Reps, Legislatures, and Senators with calls, letters, emails, and meetings.
So why are we not doing it. Do not be afraid or ashamed. If we do not speak up now we will all be losing our rights. So why don't we all get off our asses and MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Lets march on Washington and let them hear us that these "sex offender laws" do nothing but cause heartache, depression, discrimination, injustice, etc. Lets set a date...
Anonymous @6:58:00 AM said...
Actually, the comparative physiological response would be the engorgement the vulva. So to take the troll's argument further, if a girl was "wet" then she was "into it"?
You are correct from a purely physiological standpoint.
However I need a lead in to this...
The sense of one's body betraying one's self in those circumstances can be very problematic.
hence my framing. It was easier that way.
Historically, of course, it has been hard for society to accept that women abuse children at all.
This is something which, according to Bill Jenkins (male sexual abuse surviver), makes it even harder for boys to come forward and speak about what happened to them.
'What chap, regardless of age, wants to admit his abuser is a woman?' he says. 'It's not something that men will readily admit to. It implies you are a wimp.'
This emotional conflict is echoed by the voices of more recent victims, desperate boys and young teenagers who turn to ChildLine for help. Many of them fear being seen as unmasculine and worry that what is happening to them will be dismissed as a teenage rite of passage.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1228366/I-abused-woman-haunts-day.html
Urteter nuytre: http://surenamme.ugu.pl
Before you start talking like this, do some research please. High horse, my ass. Please find out what happens when boys have relationships with older women. Depression, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, unable to maintain steady relationships, suicide. Of course, not every case will have these effects, but those are some of the most common ones. Yeah, depression, drugs, suicide. No big deal. It's not harmful at all.
Even if these things didn't happen, it's still illegal and women should face the same sentences men face.
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