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Wednesday, January 5, 2011

From the archives: The Lie That 'Just Happens'

The Lie That “Just Happens”

By Laura Onstot/published: April 15, 2009

Seattle Weekly

Fake allegations of rape and other crimes—with no obvious motivation—are a particularly mysterious phenomenon.

In his small, shared cell at the Maleng Regional Justice Center in Kent, Dawit Bekele went into a panic. His heart began to race. Finally a guard took him to a nurse.

As he underwent an exam, Bekele tried desperately to convince the nurse he had done nothing wrong, that he was an innocent man. The nurse tried to comfort him, saying that just because he had committed a terrible crime—namely, raped one of his students at a local community college—didn't mean he was a bad person.

"The first three or four days were complete hell," recalls Bekele (not his real name), who spent nine days behind bars and agreed to describe his experience to Seattle Weekly if we did not identify him. "Especially at night. It felt like the demons are coming to make you go crazy."

It was the summer of 2007, and Bekele, a popular psychology professor and licensed therapist, had been teaching a course on organizational behavior. One day he received a call from his union representative informing him that he was no longer allowed on campus and that a replacement instructor had been assigned to his class. When he asked for details, the rep said something about an investigation and disciplinary action. "He was very vague," says Bekele, whose accent bears a trace of his upbringing in Ethiopia, where he lived until age 18.

Though he didn't know exactly what was going on, Bekele understood his employment contract well enough to know that whatever it was, it must be a big deal for him to be removed from the classroom. He and his wife took a walk to talk about what might come next. He prayed with the priest at his Eastern Orthodox church. "Even if they come to kill you, don't lose your faith," Bekele remembers the priest saying. It wasn't all that helpful at that moment.

On July 12, after Bekele packed his 5-year-old daughter off to school, two King County Sheriff's deputies showed up at his door. They had been contacted by one of his students, Katherine Clifton. She told them Bekele had been stalking her, showing up frequently at her job, and had even struck her in a fit of rage. She showed investigators e-mails from Bekele expressing romantic interest in her, advances she claimed to have rebuffed. And she told them that on July 5, he had broken into her apartment, wrapped a strip of fabric around her neck, and raped her.

The deputies told Bekele the accusations against him, handcuffed him, and put him in the back of a squad car. Then they searched his house.

When they returned to the car, one of the detectives showed him printouts of the e-mails Clifton had supplied. "He said, 'This is your chance to come clean,'" Bekele remembers. "I said, 'That's not me.'"

They drove him to the Maleng Regional Justice Center, where he was booked. "Next thing I knew I was stripped and put on the orange suit," he says.

Fortunately for Bekele, even as prosecutors imprisoned him and filed charges against him, they continued to investigate the evidence. They determined that both sides of the e-mail exchange had been sent from Clifton's own computer. That's when her allegations began to fall apart. Bekele's friends provided an alibi, saying he'd been at a dinner party with them on the night of the alleged rape. Eventually, Clifton confessed to inventing the whole story.

"To this day, we have no clue why she made this up," says Bekele's attorney, Robert Flennaugh. While the charges were pending, Flennaugh had tried, as defense lawyers do, to come up with some reason why Clifton might have dreamt up a false claim—some motivation, a grudge. In rape cases especially, when it's one person's word against another's, jurors need to see some reason for the victim to lie, especially considering how painful it is to come forward with such a charge.

Clifton had once contested a grade from Bekele, thinking she deserved a 4.0 after receiving a 3.9. And she'd sent him one e-mail that seemed possibly inappropriate. But that was it, Flennaugh says. They'd had no other contact outside the classroom.

Flennaugh would have had a tough time raising doubts in jurors' minds about the accuser's motives, a fact that still makes him shudder. Had she not gone so far as to create the bogus e-mails, his client would likely be facing a possible prison term, Flennaugh says. "If she hadn't lied too much, where would we be? We'd be in trial."

The phenomenon of completely unmotivated lying—or, at least, lying with no readily understandable motive—is a rare one in the criminal justice realm. Most of the time people lie for clear and obvious reasons—to exonerate themselves or cover up some other misdeed. But as Flennaugh says, "Sometimes cases happen and it has nothing to do with motivation at all."

Seattle-based forensic psychologist David Dixon, who evaluates defendants during criminal trials—including people accused of filing false police reports—prior to their sentencing, says the few cases of this sort that he has come across suggest an underlying mental disorder that goes much deeper than telling a lie. And in his experience, most of those cases are set in motion by women. "I'm not exactly sure why," he says.

The most frequently cited major study of unsubstantiated rape charges was published in 1994, when Purdue University sociologist Eugene Kanin looked into sexual-assault reports at a Midwestern police department and determined that 41 percent were false. More recently, the Pentagon's 2008 report on sexual assault in the military noted that of 2,700 reported sexual assaults, most from women, 39 percent were dropped as unfounded or lacking evidence.

Last January, the Virginia-based American Prosecutors Research Institute published a report arguing that such studies are based solely on whether or not the initial investigators drop the case, and ought to be independently evaluated. The Institute points to another, ongoing study by the nonprofit End Violence Against Women International, which has been collecting data from eight different U.S. law enforcement agencies since 2005. Of the more than 2,000 cases examined thus far, researchers have classified about 7 percent as false.

Whatever the frequency, false claims, like the one that put Bekele in jail, do happen—and often in an extremely public way. From the notorious Tawana Brawley case of 1987 to the Duke lacrosse-team fiasco two decades later, there have been a number of horrific and high-profile instances of false rape claims, often with extremely hard-to-discern motives. The cases not only have been destructive to the accused, but undermine longstanding efforts to get rape accusations taken more seriously.

"One of the horrors of the Duke case was that it actually set the rights of women in this area back maybe 15 years," says Joe Cheshire, an attorney for one of the Duke players, speaking from Raleigh, N.C. "Now people question rape allegations more than ever—which of course makes more women afraid to come forward."

Just this week, the King County Prosecutor's office declined to file charges against Sounders FC player Fredy Montero, who'd been accused by a Sammamish woman of raping her on two separate occasions. A spokesperson for the office said there was insufficient evidence to file criminal charges against the 21-year-old Colombian. News of the allegations against Montero was first leaked to Seattlepi.com, and received extensive media coverage.

Bekele himself says he tries to keep the episode he went through from coloring his view of other women claiming to be victims of rape and other crimes. As a therapist, he says, he knows it's already extremely difficult for real victims to speak up. "But yes," he adds, "because of my personal experience, I also know that there are false accusations."

There isn't a named diagnosis for someone who fakes being the victim of a crime, according to Dixon, the forensic psychologist. But the phenomenon resembles another disorder, Münchausen syndrome by proxy, wherein a parent, almost always the mother, deliberately makes their child sick to receive attention from doctors and elicit sympathy from friends and neighbors. In some instances, Dixon says, the line between fantasy and reality starts to blur. "In extreme cases, the fantasy I've seen, the wish, may reach delusional proportions," Dixon says. "They actually believe what they're saying."

Dixon adds that he generally recommends psychological care for women convicted of inventing a crime. "Without treatment, I've seen re-offenses," he says. According to various news reports, Crystal Mangum, the Duke accuser, had alleged more than a decade earlier that three men had kidnapped and raped her—an assertion that was never proven, and which some members of her family later told Fox News they doubted. She also once accused her now-ex-husband of taking her out to the woods and attempting to kill her; again, an investigation turned up nothing to support her story.

In Washington state, there's been something of a rash of recent cases.

Last fall, a female student at Ferris High School in Spokane accused social-studies teacher Don Van Lierop—one of the most successful men's high-school basketball coaches in state history—of rape. Van Lierop is a local hero in Spokane's South Hill neighborhood, a place of single-family homes, manicured lawns, and soccer fields. Last year his team swept the state tournament after going a record-setting two seasons without a loss. That made it all the more shocking when the student, who wasn't in any of his classes, showed up in a police station on November 5, just before the team's first practice, and said the married father of three had raped her.

The school district immediately suspended the coach, and he had to stay away from his players while investigators sorted it all out. But over the next two weeks, the girl stopped cooperating and eventually recanted. By November 21, Van Lierop, who had immediately sought to take a lie-detector test, was back on the basketball court.

"The past two weeks of my life, and the life of my family, can only be described as a person's worst nightmare," Van Lierop said at the time in a press release sent out by his attorney Kevin Curtis. "Any husband, father, coach, or teacher can only imagine what a person and his family go through when falsely accused of this kind of conduct."

Curtis says the allegation came as a shock. The girl had been dating one of the basketball players and come to a couple of practices. Other than that, he says, Van Lierop had had almost no contact with her. "We never received a statement or clarification from the girl herself as to why she made the allegations against Mr. Van Lierop," he says.

Filing a false police report is a misdemeanor in Washington. According to Spokane Police spokesperson Jennifer DeRuwe, police declined to charge the girl after her parents promised she would receive treatment.

A few weeks after the incident in Spokane, 911 received a call from a woman outside Issaquah. Her 10-year-old daughter had disappeared on her bike. It had been over a half-hour, she told the dispatcher. Within 20 minutes, a neighbor four miles down the road called to say they had the girl—pink helmet, lime-green bicycle, and all. She was safe, but that wasn't the end of it. The girl told her parents and police she had nearly been the victim of every parent's worst nightmare—a kidnapping.

A mysterious man with long stringy hair in a blue pickup had snatched her, she said, throwing her in the cab and her bike in the back. But the girl wouldn't go quietly, she told sheriff's deputies. She screamed and kicked at her captor until finally he pulled over, pushed her out of the cab, dropped off the bike, and drove away.

The Sheriff's department has staff who are specially tasked with determining whether or not an alleged victim is credible. A woman in the department sat down with the girl and carefully listened to her story to evaluate its veracity. That officer came away convinced. So did the department's sketch artist. For the next week, police issued press releases describing the incident and the truck. Using the girl's description, the department distributed an image of a man with wide-set, droopy eyes and long stringy hair. News outlets, including this one, posted it to their Web sites.

Likewise, Bekele's accuser also underwent a joint interview with prosecutors and investigators, and also came off as credible, according to Ian Goodhew, deputy chief of staff in the King County Prosecutor's office. That's why prosecutors decided to file charges in the case.

Susan Shapiro Barash, a gender-studies instructor at Marymount Manhattan College whose book, Little White Lies, Deep Dark Secrets: The Truth About Why Women Lie, was published last year, says women who choose to lie do so in part because they're good at it. "We're raised to tell little white lies," Barash says. "Part of the reason women can lie about something big is because they've been taught to lie about small things."

For her book, Barash placed an ad on Craigslist asking women to take a questionnaire about lying. More than 500 responded. Three-fourths said they had to lie to keep their position at work; about the same number said they lied about money. Men lie about these things too, of course, but Barash says the women responding to the ad believed themselves cleverer about it than men. Because of that, she says, she isn't surprised that a woman might carry a falsehood to the point that it prompts a police investigation.

Cheshire, the Raleigh attorney, says he never really could figure out much motive for the alleged victim in the Duke case to invent the lie, except that she had been taken to a police station after being found drunk in a friend's car that night. "As best we can tell, her motive was that she did not want to get locked up that night for being drunk and obnoxious and refusing to follow police orders," he says.

Cheshire says he's seen fallout from Mangum's lie in other cases that hinge on a woman's credibility. Some defense attorneys take advantage of doubts inspired by the Duke case. Rather than argue against the case presented by the prosecutor, he says, they do everything they can to cast the woman as a liar, even if there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest she isn't telling the truth.

This kind of approach leaves rape survivors especially vulnerable, says Dr. Kimberly Lonsway, a California-based psychologist and Director of Research at End Violence Against Women International who runs training programs for police officers and others who work with female victims.

Lonsway says that it isn't only juries who need convincing—it can be difficult just to get police to launch a serious investigation into crimes like rape which depend heavily on a victim's testimony. In cases like robbery, she says, where there is readily available physical evidence that a crime has been committed, cops are willing to overlook inconsistencies in victims' and witnesses' statements. But in rape allegations without strong physical evidence, law-enforcement officials jump on any inconsistencies. "We understand that a burglary victim might get the story wrong," Lonsway says. "But if it's a rape, we go immediately to this: 'Ah, are you lying to me now, or were you lying to me then?'"

Lonsway and her training partner, Joanne Archambault, a retired police sergeant living in eastern Washington, do an exercise in which they distribute a series of alleged rape reports to small groups of people, asking them to decide the veracity of each. In most of the cases, there are enough inconsistencies in the victims' statements that the groups deem them to be false. But the reports were in fact generated after a serial rapist attacked women throughout California, Lonsway says. Each of the reports was initially dismissed by officers, until one investigator finally saw enough similarities among the different incidents to suspect the same person was behind the crimes.

On his fourth day behind bars, Bekele says, his background as a therapist finally kicked in. He might be in for a while, he realized—years, if found guilty. So it was time to find a way to cope. He got to know his cellmate—he uses the slang term "celly"—who gave him pointers: Stay invisible and never tell anyone what crime you're accused of, especially if it's rape. Bekele laid low, sticking close to a group of inmates who passed the time reading Bible verses. Ultimately, he says, his priest was right about the clinging-to-faith part—behind bars, that's all he had.

On the ninth day, guards cuffed Bekele and loaded him onto a windowless bus for a trip to Seattle. Someone on the bus knew about the rape charge and started shouting about it. Bekele says he started praying harder than ever.

At the courthouse where the bus arrived, King County prosecutors had received the investigators' conclusions about the e-mail. Bekele's ordeal was almost over.

He finally got to the waiting area outside the arraignment room at the King County Courthouse. Then he saw Flennaugh on the other side of a glass window. Flennaugh indicated for him to come out and talk. The prosecutor's office had dropped the charges, he told Bekele (though for a while they left open the possibility of refiling).

Bekele went back to the Regional Justice Center and changed out of the orange jumpsuit. His clothes were still being held as part of the ongoing investigation, so a jail employee gave him a pair of jeans. The first thing he saw when he walked out was his daughter. "She was so happy to see me," he says. "And that was a beautiful sight."

Clifton pleaded guilty to filing a false police report. Her plea agreement included the provision that she receive mental help. A judge sentenced her to eight days on a work crew; she served no jail time. She remains on probation through 2010.

Bekele is now back in the classroom, though he says he's changed some things about the way he operates, keeping careful records of where he is and whom he's with. There is lingering fear that something like this could happen again, he says. "To this day, at times, that feeling comes up."

Bekele never filed any kind of lawsuit against Clifton or members of the community-college district, despite overtures from attorneys who would have represented him. He says he had to forgive Clifton and move on with his life. How did he do that? Like the rape charge itself, "It's something that just happened."

24 comments:

ScareCrow said...

Off-topic:

In case you were not aware, the man that wrote "The Misandry Bubble" has a plan of action - to post stickers above urinals in men's rooms that are advertisements to either this site, or the spearhead.

Before I engage in such an endeavor, I wanted the permission of the people who run this blog.

So - do I have permission to do this?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

"In rape cases especially, when it's one person's word against another's, jurors need to see some reason for the victim to lie, especially considering how painful it is to come forward with such a charge."

While it might be painful for rape victims to come forward that doesn't apply to false accusers for the simple reason that they aren't rape victims.

Human-Stupidity.com said...

Texan declared innocent after 30 years in prison for false rape charges

did you see this already?

I did not know where else I could post this to notify you ...........

Human-Stupidity.com said...

You might also be interested in the Kachelmann case, very famous in Germany. There is no proof that the accusations are wrong, but the destroyed the guy's life, and so far the accuser has been proven wrong a few times.


http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/mens-rights-feminism/meteorologist-tv-weather-anchor-false-rape-accusation-heidi-jones-joerg-kachelmann

Unproven Rape charges: Famous German Weather Anchorman Joerg Kachelmann released after 4 months instant jail
http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/mens-rights-feminism/unproven-rape-allegations-weatherman-joerg-kachelmann

E. Steven Berkimer said...

Scarecrow,

Feel free. No problems on this end for me. Pierce may feel differently, so I'll let him speak for himself.

Anonymous said...

"I made it up for attention"

http://tinyurl.com/29fya7j

Actually, I think these cases are great because they show that no matter how competent, normal and sucessful a female may appear on the outside they are all capable of making false accusations and should never be believed or trusted.

Anonymous said...

Jan 5, 2011 2:47:00 PM

No, they don't show that. Only a tiny minority of women commit false rape accusations.

Anonymous said...

I am a woman who has never made a false accusation or allowed anyone to take the blame for something I did.

And I never will.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Archivist said...

Hardly any women make false claims; hardly any men rape. Sometimes it is unhealthy to read too many gender blogs because you start to forget that the vast majority of people are basically good.

Archivist said...

Scarecrow, I agree with Steve. Anything we can do to get the word out, so long as it's legal, is great.

Anonymous said...

Archivist- to say that hardly any females make false accusations and to then say that hardly any men rape is not comparable at all.

False accusations or telling lies are fairly common with females while a man raping is extremely rare.
And btw, I pay no attention to what I read on blogs since there are a million of them and any fool can have a blog these days. I base what I have to say on 60 years of very varied personal experience. While a false rape accusation may be an extreme example of a female lie that involves the Law what about all the other lies that females engage in outside of the law and which do not involve the law? The malicious gossiping, character assasination and just plain lying to get some advantage.
And anon @7.14, just because you may not have made a false rape accusation doesn't mean you're not a liar. You want me to hook you up to a polygraph and ask you some questions about some of the things you've done in life as a female?

zarko said...

I am a woman who has never made a false accusation or allowed anyone to take the blame for something I did.

And I never will.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Currently smoking it.

What is the point of this message? I mean, I understand what you are saying, but why state it?

I never played polo. I never climbed Mount Everest. I am not sure how we are able to build upon it.

Also, I suppose congratulations.

Anonymous said...

Jan 5, 2011 8:33:00 PM
Jan 5, 2011 10:57:00 PM

The point is that anti-female bigotry isn't any better or worse than anti-male bigotry.

Nick S said...

The number of women who make false rape allegations is quite small. But the number of women who make false allegations of (say) sexual harassment would be somewhat higher. If you then include the number of women who make false allegations of men being unjustly privileged, false allegations of workplace discrimination, false allegations that men are largely to blame for most of their life problems, the number skyrockets.

Women are encouraged to blame men for most of their problems. In a sense, false rape allegations are simply at the extreme end of a continuum of behaviors and attitudes that are entrenched in our culture.

While rape culture is largely horseshit, and the idea that society encourages and condones men raping women is the purest fantasy imaginable, the "false allegation culture", the "blame men for all your woes" culture is far more real and an established part of the culture.

Moreover, considering how much issues like rape have been used to justify eroding the rights and civil liberties of men, it is absurd and offensive to suggest that men benefit from rape. But there is little equivalent collective cost to women of false allegations. Although individual women do suffer when men close to them are victimized.

zarko said...

Jan 6, 2011 6:19:00 AM

Correct. Once again, shall we spew out irrelevant statements?

Anonymous said...

You gentlemen might enjoy reading this while smoking your pipes -

and I accept your polygraph challenge, and issue the same in return. As a human being I strive to be honest and honorable, just as I am sure Y O U have.

As a human being, my life has been devastated by a false accusation as much, if not more, than YOURS has.

So put this in your pipe and smoke it:
Delmont father accuses son of defaming him with sex abuse claims
1-6-2011 Pennsylvania:

In a court case that pits father against son, Anthony Cesare of Delmont is asking a Westmoreland County jury to make his 28-year-old son pay for making up a lie that Cesare claims ruined his reputation and cost him business.

In court documents filed more than two years ago, Dominic Cesare accused his 53-year-old father of sexual and emotional abuse, according to Anthony Cesare.

"It's unbelievable. It's totally ridiculous," Anthony Cesare testified Wednesday about his son's allegations.

Dominic Cesare accused his father of sexually abusing him as a teenager in a court document he filed in a custody case in 2008 and in later depositions for the lawsuit.

Attorney Steve Morrison told jurors that the defense to the defamation suit is that the abuse allegations are true.

"The conduct itself is really reprehensible," Morrison said.

Dominic Cesare never reported his allegations to police. Morrison said the disclosure came too late to have a case prosecuted.

According to Anthony Cesare's lawsuit, the sexual abuse allegation surfaced as a manufactured attempt to prevent him from seeing his grandson. Then his son spread those allegations to customers, according to the father.

Both Cesares run competing Delmont-area businesses that install custom-built water treatment systems.

Anthony Cesare said his son's allegations cost him customers.

His lawyer, Amy Cunningham, said there is no proof of any sexual abuse, and her client has since been certified by the Westmoreland County Children's Bureau to act as a foster parent.

"The evidence will show Dominic never, never told anybody about this allegation of sexual abuse before he filled out that custody form," Cunningham told the jury.

The trial before Judge Anthony Marsili will continue this morning

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Jan 5, 2011 8:33:00 PM
Jan 5, 2011 10:57:00 PM

The point is that anti-female bigotry isn't any better or worse than anti-male bigotry.

Jan 6, 2011 6:19:00 AM

Thank you, Anon 6:19.

The point is also, not ALL women go unscathed by false accusations.

Every man falsely accused has a mother, sister, wife, girlfriend who walks that horror road with them.

If you look on facebook, there are multitudes of sites - almost exclusively started by women, who plead for the innocence and injustice of a man falsely accused.

For you to suggest that ALL women are in league with false accusers is an ugly lie.

slwerner said...

Nick s - "Women are encouraged to blame men for most of their problems. In a sense, false rape allegations are simply at the extreme end of a continuum of behaviors and attitudes that are entrenched in our culture.

While rape culture is largely horseshit, and the idea that society encourages and condones men raping women is the purest fantasy imaginable, the "false allegation culture", the "blame men for all your woes" culture is far more real and an established part of the culture.

Moreover, considering how much issues like rape have been used to justify eroding the rights and civil liberties of men, it is absurd and offensive to suggest that men benefit from rape."


very well stated, indeed. Nice work!

I think we could all do well to adopt Nick's "talking points" here:

* The "blame men for all your woes" culture is far more real and an established part of the culture.

* False rape allegations are simply at the extreme end of a continuum

And, (to paraphrase);

* The rape issue has been used to undermine men, not to benefit them.

slwerner said...

Speaking of the false allegations continuum:

'Fathers at risk' in Government's legal aid cut

"Hundreds of men will face false allegations of domestic violence and child abuse because of legal aid reforms, barristers warned today."

Archivist said...

The "blame men" mentality has become institutionalized --http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/04/we-cant-empower-women-by-insisting-they.html

Archivist said...

Excerpt from the post I just cited:

"When the dust had lifted the new gender landscape revealed itself: the group that controls most of America's wealth, that controls the ballot box, that is awarded the vast majority of college degrees, that trumps men in virtually every measure of educational achievement, that is assured equal opportunity in every sphere of American life and is provided financial assistance in many simply because of its gender, that maintains a death grip on control of the domestic sphere, including children and family law courts, that earns more than its same age male peers in large urban areas until its members drop out and have children, and that lives significantly longer than men -- that group -- insists it is marginalized, oppressed, and not regarded as equal human beings. It supports this insistence with vapid epiphanies like the gender wage gap (even though it has been fairly established that the gap is not due to discrimination); with mantras like "women do more housework" (even though men work more outside the home to even things out) and "men monopolize positions of power" (which is largely due to choices women make, and not mentioned is that men also make up the vast majority of citizens at the bottom of society, living on the streets -- but that couldn't possibly be a gender issue, right?).

"They thought they could somehow empower people who didn't need empowering by declaring them powerless. But the "equality" manufactured by insisting that women are powerless -- by mandating equal outcomes at the expense of equal opportunity, by insisting that young women can get drunk and engage in sex play but still have no free moral agency, by denigrating the other group as oppressors -- is the cubic zirconia of equality, a sham, a garden variety hoax. The more we "empower" women by heaping artificial advantages and privileges on them and by excusing them from accountability for their actions, the more we reinforce the notion that women need special treatment because women really aren't equal. The more that women act like victims, the more they become victims."

Nick S said...

Thanks Slwerner,

Even if you look at issues like the so-called "wage gap", or women who claim that they are paid less for doing the same work, in a sense this is just another false allegation. A little white lie to blame men, and avoid any responsibility for one's own choices.

Women are encouraged to blame men for all their problems, and they are encouraged to twist the facts in order to do so. False rape allegations are just a logical, if extreme, extension of this.

Once you have conditioned people to believe that a particular group is responsible for all society's ills and deserves whatever they get, you can pretty much get away with anything.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering about Nick S and Archivist views about how to create the ideal and equal society. Do you think that women and men would share equally in housework, jobs, etc without the gender battles - or that the different genders would favor different career paths?

I'm also wondering about your views on the extent that "The more that women act like victims, the more they become victims." In an equal society, does this suggest that women would choose to work more and eventually receive equal pay?

Just my point of view - there does need to be less antagonism on both sides. Women would not be judged for wanting to pursue careers while having families, but men would also not be judged for wanting to put family and housework over careers.

Anonymous said...

I'm also wondering about your views on the extent that "The more that women act like victims, the more they become victims."
This has been true, about anything, since the world was created.

In an equal society, does this suggest that women would choose to work more and eventually receive equal pay?
I think the myth of 70 cents for a dollar has been thoroughly debunked for a long time now. Women already enjoy several advantages in the workplace that men cannot. To name a few:

-Hiring favoritism.
-Less likely to be laid off.
-Much likelier to get promoted

Also generally get paid slightly more in the off-chance salaries are made public. You do not wish to have the headaches of a woman suing you just because she's ever paid less than a man.