Wednesday, June 23, 2010

This date in history: Lorena Bobbitt sliced off her husband's penis and exposed the politics of hate


Introduction

The mutilation of John Wayne Bobbitt by his wife, Lorena, on June 23, 1993, marks one of the most appalling and reprehensible chapters in modern Western gender relations. The story is well known: Lorena Bobbitt said her husband abused her over a prolonged period of time and that, on the night in question, he raped her. In a moment of what she claimed was temporary insanity, while her husband slept, she went to the kitchen of their apartment, grabbed a knife, returned to the bedroom, and proceeded to cut off most of his penis.  She then hopped in her car, penis in hand, and drove away.  As she sped by a field, she tossed the severed appendage out the window.  The organ was later recovered and, miraculously, reattached to its owner.

The Bobbitt affair was appalling and reprehensible, and not merely because of the gruesome act of mayhem that defined it. It was all the more despicable because of the unspeakable glee, the unbridled delight, and the inexplicable exultation expressed by feminists and large segments of the female population, who luxuriated in the vile mutilation of some lower class nobody, a man who had difficulty holding onto a job as a manual laborer.  Feminists regarded the event as both a watershed moment in the battle of the sexes and a justifiable assault on maleness itself.  Just as ancient warriors sometimes took the penises of their vanquished enemies as war trophies, what better way of trumpeting victory in the battle of the sexes than to take patriarchy's quintessential symbol from one of its foot soldiers?

In the immediate aftermath of the incident, with de rigueur, mindless, knee jerk fidelity, women's organizations branded the perpetrator "the victim" and the victim "the perpetrator" strictly along gender lines, even though the alleged rape was "he said/she said," and even though there was no question that she mutilated him while he slept. This wasn't just a rush to judgment; it was a 60-meter sprint, completed in record time. Before a single scrap of evidence was considered by a jury, for feminists and many women, the trial was over even before it had begun. They arrogated to any woman the right to exact the most gruesome vigilante justice on any "member" of any member of the opposite sex. The Bobbitt affair was feminist stardust wishfulness come true.

John Bobbitt: False Rape Claim Victim

The mutilation couldn't then, and can't now, be rationally justified on any level. It was not self-defense.  Ample evidence showed that both Mr. and Mrs. Bobbitt abused each other during their marriage. There is no evidence to believe anything stopped either one from leaving the other, and at the time of the maiming, they had been discussing divorce.  By any measure, Mrs. Bobbitt's vigilante "justice" didn't fit the crime, even if Mr. Bobbitt had raped her earlier in the evening, as she claims.

But did Mr. Bobbitt rape his wife? When the legend becomes fact, old cowboys and feminists alike insist on printing the legend. In the Bobbitt case, the legend quickly took hold that of course John Bobbitt raped his wife.  The problem is, the facts don't support the legend.  It seems more likely that John Bobbitt was the victim of not only a horrible bodily mutilation but also of a false rape claim. 

Mrs. Bobbitt's version of the facts was the evolving narrative of a woman groping for victimhood.  At the time of her arrest, according to the New York Times, she told police: "He always have orgasm and he doesn't wait for me to have orgasm. He's selfish. I don't think it's fair, so I pulled back the sheets then and I did it." That was the reason she gave for severing his penis. Later, however, she claimed she cut her husband in anger after he raped her, and she told a psychiatrist that she cut him "really fast." Later, at her own trial, she claimed she couldn't even remember doing it. 

"This was all contrived to strike back at him after he said he was going to leave her," said Mr. Bobbitt's counsel, Gregory L. Murphy. "She was acting out a fantasy that's in the psyche of many women." Mel Feit, executive director of the National Center for Men in Brooklyn, might have hit the nail on the head with his explanation for the mutilation. "This is the result of feminists teaching women that men are natural oppressors."

As befits a case where the accuser's story is a moving target, at his trial for marital sexual abuse, John Bobbitt was acquitted.  But that did nothing to end the misandry.

Lorena Bobbitt: Feminist Hero

From the outset, Lorena Bobbitt was widely regarded as a feminist hero. Time Magazine said there was a "ripple of glee that passed through the female population when Lorena Bobbitt struck back."  Vanity Fair ran a sultry photo spread of Lorena Bobbitt and branded her a "national folk heroine." 

A woman wrote to the New York Times: "Prof. Catharine MacKinnon of the University of Michigan and the writer Andrea Dworkin long ago pointed to the institution of marriage as a legal cover for the act of rape and the permanent humiliation of women. Lorena Bobbitt's life has been a poignant instance of that nightmare, which elicited a bold and courageous act of feminist self-defense.  As one who recently returned from a conference of feminist activists in Europe, I can assure readers that the Lorena Bobbitt case has galvanized the women's movement worldwide in a way the Anita Hill case never did. No feminist is advocating emasculation as the weapon of first choice. And some women question the political prudence of 'sociosexual vigilantism.' But whatever the judgment of America's patriarchal legal system, Lorena Bobbitt is for most feminists no criminal. She is instead a symbol of innovative resistance against gender oppression everywhere."

Another woman seemed to sum up the feelings of many women without the pretentious feminist patina: "Every woman I've talked to about this says, 'Way to go!'" 

A sexual assault counselor said she didn't condone the maiming but could "understand it," and "could sympathize."  The severance of this 26-year-old loser's penis somehow became, in the words of that sexual assault counselor, "a critical event in the history of women."  Why? Because "violence is done to women continuously and pervasively. And this is a retaliatory act of great dramatic value . . . ."  John Bobbitt's severed penis was a sacrificial offering for the collective guilt of all men on the altar of political correctness.

The mainstream media was only too happy to mirror the feminist glee with barely any more restraint.  Progressive writers (we called them "liberal" back then) dubbed the affair a "cautionary tale" for men. The lesson wasn't that mutilating another human being is never justified; the lesson was that men had better wise up when it comes to how they treat women or they'll rightly lose their dicks.  Female features writers couldn't bring themselves to outright applaud the mutilation but they went to great lengths to make clear that they were sympathetic to it.  One columnist wrote: "Personally, I'm for both feminism and nonviolence. I admire the male body and prefer to find the penis attached to it rather than having to root around in vacant lots with Ziploc bag in hand. But I'm not willing to wait another decade or two for gender peace to prevail. And if a fellow insists on using his penis as a weapon, I say that, one way or another, he ought to be swiftly disarmed."  A not-so-veiled justification for mutilation, so long as the mutilation involves a penis, and premised on a thousand modern-day Chicken Little fables and made-up stats that encourage young women to see sexual predation oozing from every male zipper.

Then there was celebrated columnist Ellen Goodman, Radcliffe grad and Pulitzer Prize winner, one of the darlings of progressive feminism whose column appeared in hundreds newspapers across the nation and who, on the the entitlement and privilege scale, was a "ten" to John Bobbitt's "one."  Ellen Goodman took time out from polishing the awards on her mantle to make this working class putz her personal piƱata.  Ms. Goodman, of course, refused to come out and condone the mutilation, but she certainly could "explain," in a decidedly feminist way, both the mutilation and women's celebratory reaction to it.  Ms. Goodman concluded that this story became a national sensation only because a woman finally fought back. "Last year," she declared without bothering to support her pronouncement with silly things like evidence, "the police blotter was full of abused and battered wives -- an almost unilateral massacre."  (Because, you see, in 1993, women did not commit domestic violence. Even today, few progressive female writers accept the indisputable fact, proven beyond question, that women commit domestic violence in significant numbers -- against men, and other women.)  Now, Ms. Goodman gushed, men "see a dangerous enemy where there was once a victim."  And the men squirming at the thought of being Bobbittized? "If women smile at men who squirm, maybe it's at that recognition of power."  Ms. Goodman's take on the matter, of course, proves one thing: even misandrists can win a Pulitzer Prize.
 
To use the stilted, stick-up-their-ass syntax of Women's Studies majors, trying ever so hard to convince everyone they are actually getting an education in those wretched classes, Ms. Bobbitt was the leveler of gendered power differentials.  She was a feminist Batman, without the codpiece. Never mind that none of the women applauding penile mutilation would applaud any other type of brutal vigilante justice for any other type of crime. Nothing a woman could do would ever justify mutilation of her breasts or vagina. Yet vigilante justice directed at the penis of some below average guy was heralded with a giddy "you go, girlfriend!" heard around the world.

The fact that purportedly enlightened publications were quietly, and sometimes not so quietly, rooting for Mrs. Bobbitt even before a single fact was adjudicated or a scrap of evidence admitted at trial is nothing short of astounding, puzzling, and frightening, all at once.

John Bobbitt Fit the Feminist Metanarrative as Oppressor of Women

What was behind all this contempt, all this hatred for a run-of-the-mill 26-year-old man who, by any logical measure, was the real victim here?  Think Duke lacrosse.  He fit the feminist stereotype as an oppressor. He was young, white and an ex-Marine. The fact that he was anything but "privileged" was easy to overlook and, in fact, beneficial because he lacked the capacity to defend himself against the Ellen Goodmans of the world.
 
As Thomas Sowell recently wrote in Intellectuals and Society: "Information or allegations reflecting negatively on individuals or groups seen less sympathetically by the intelligentsia pass rapidly into the public domain with little scrutiny and much publicity."  Sowell cited two of the more prominent hoaxes in recent history as evidence for this point: the alleged gang rapes of black women by white men in the Tawana Brawley and Duke lacrosse cases.  He might also have cited the Bobbitt affair.

The Politics of Hate

But some columnists couldn't accept that women in general embraced the feminist glee over the mutilation. Syndicated columnist Mona Charen explained why Mrs. Bobbitt was chosen as a feminist pinup girl: the mutilation, they believed, was "every woman's fantasy." The case gripped the media because, Ms. Charen lamented, "they [the media] really believe that most women feel that way deep down." But Ms. Charen recognized how utterly twisted all of it was: "If feminists are seething with such hatred for men, that is evidence of a politics bordering on pathology." She continued: "To see the mutilation of a man's body as a political act and to signal secret approval and a vicarious thrill . . . truly deserves the label 'the politics of hate.'"

Charen found the nation's obsession with the mutilation "bizarre, abnormal and sexist to boot." It would be impossible to disagree with Ms. Charen's observation about reversing the genders: "If a woman were similarly wounded by a man, no one would treat it with ghoulish humor. Men are evidently fair game." The brilliant Charles Krauthammer, one of America's most respected political commentators, chimed in and noted that the hypothetical where the genders were reversed "would not have the weight of feminist rage behind it."  Newsweek nailed it: "Just imagine what [feminists'] reaction would be if someone had tried to cut off a woman's breast. Feminists have a cutting-edge sense of humor...but only if it's directed at men."

Even when Mr. Bobbitt was found not guilty of marital rape, that didn't change the feminists' view that, of course, he was really guilty. Kim Gandy of NOW said the verdict "discourages women and gives men a free ride in marital rape cases."  It doesn't seem to have occurred to Ms. Gandy that John Bobbitt might not have raped his wife. Ms. Gandy, obviously, knew better than the jury.  Or if it did occur to her that perhaps Mr. Bobbitt was factually innocent, she didn't let that inconvenient fact get in the way of her women-are-always-the-victim metanarrative.

The Lorena Bobbitt Trial: Things Get Really Nutty

Finally, it was time for Mrs. Bobbitt's trial for maliciously wounding her husband. Much of the nation, and beyond, watched intently with sympathies split largely along gender lines.  In Ecuador, Lorena Bobbitt's home country, the National Feminist Association called several news organizations to announce that if Mrs. Bobbitt went to prison for mutilating her husband, 100 innocent American men would be castrated (it is not clear if they really meant "castration," which generally means removal of the testicles, or if they meant they would slice off 100 innocent penises).  The organization also staged a large protest outside the U.S. consulate. 

The Lorena Bobbitt trial was a feminist Woodstock.  A carnival atmosphere swept over Manassas, where it was held.  A woman sold homemade, penis-shaped white chocolates outside the courthouse.  T-shirts were hawked that said "Revenge -- how sweet it is," and "Manassas: A Cut Above." Some feminists sold buttons that read: "LORENA BOBBITT FOR SURGEON GENERAL." Disc jockeys handed out "Slice" soda pop and cocktail wieners "with lots of ketchup."  Hundreds of Lorena Bobbitt supporters cheered their champion outside the courthouse. When the man she mutilated -- the real victim -- walked outside, he was greeted with boos and whistles, but he stoically showed no reaction.

Mrs. Bobbitt's self-defense claim -- that she was justified in maiming a sleeping man -- would be laughable in any context outside feminist jurisprudence.  Here's what Newsweek said about it: ". . . the traditional definition of self-defense wasn't enough for radical feminists. And so in the 1970s, feminist psychologist Lenore Walker conceived the 'battered-woman syndrome.'  Women beaten by their mates, she claimed, are so demoralized that they become too helpless to leave or to take steps to help themselves. They become convinced their only option to stop the abuse is to kill the abuser. So even if the woman is in no physical danger at the time of the killing, she's defending herself against future beatings. Get it? Because men supposedly have so much power over women in our society, women should be given the powers of judge, jury and executioner.

"Ideas--especially seminal ideas such as these--have consequences. In 1991, the governors of Ohio and Maryland commuted the sentences of a number of jailed women who had killed or assaulted their mates because they claimed to have been victims of battered-woman syndrome. But reporters turned up embarrassing evidence indicating that 15 of the 25 women freed in Ohio had not been physically abused. Six, they said, had talked about killing their boyfriends or husbands. in some cases months before doing so; and two had tracked down and killed husbands from whom they were separated. If they were capable of that much premeditation, they were certainly capable of picking up and leaving."

The female prosecutor kicked off the trial by telling the jurors, apparently with a straight face, that it was "his penis versus her life." Charles Krauthammer called that characterization a "stark summation of feminist victimization theory."  Mr. Krauthammer added that the Bobbitt case wasn't one of self-defense but of revenge. He noted that evidence of self-defense, improper though it was, came in quite handy for Mrs. Bobbitt because it allowed her to introduce "the most lurid allegations of sexual abuse."  The trial made the Bobbitt marriage "one of the most highly publicized and minutely scrutinized ever," said the New York Times.

One of Lorena's former co-workers testified that Lorena once said she would chop off her husband's dick if he cheated on her. Witnesses testified that Lorena was mean, violent, and subject to jeolous, unpredictable physical attacks.

In the end, the jury found Lorena Bobbitt not guilty of malicious wounding by reason of insanity and committed her to a mental health facility for 45 days for observation.  The New York Times reported that "a gasp went up among her supporters in the courtroom."

Did you get that?  45 days in a mental health wing of a hospital.  Until relatively recently, many states punished rape with the death penalty.  It is clear beyond question that very few rapes are as vicious, as brutal, as inhumane as the attack on Mr. Bobbitt.  But while many men and boys have been put to death for rape, a woman who sliced off her sleeping husband's penis got 45 days of observation in a nice, clean hospital. 

Whatever this was, it was not justice. 

The verdict elicited the predictable response. Self-described feminists cheered and gave each other high fives that a woman was permitted to get away with what now could literally, and officially, be called an insane act.  Kim Gandy, executive vice president of the National Organization for Women, summed up the position for the lunatic fringe, which in this case seemed to comprise a regrettably large segment of the nation's female population: "We're glad the jury rejected the twisted argument that a battered woman should be locked up in a prison cell."  Ms. Gandy used the verdict as the occasion to push one of her pet projects: ". . . this whole saga drives home the need for swift passage of a comprehensive version of the Violence Against Women Act . . . ." 

In Lorena Bobbitt's hometown of Bucay, Ecuador, hundreds took to the streets, cheering and firing shots into the air the way joyous fans do when their team wins the World Cup or the Super Bowl.

The New York Times chimed in, ever so delicately: "[I]n this case," the Times pontificated, "the jury can be forgiven for finding a reason to excuse Mrs. Bobbitt's brutality . . . ."  It also noted: ". . . perhaps the verdict will indeed make some abusive men think twice before they strike again."  But, the Times refused to go so far as to invite every self-anointed victim to resort to retaliation: ". . . violence cannot be the standard answer to violence." If violence can't be the "standard" answer, this suggests that, sometimes, violence is OK, and presumably that "sometimes" includes any time it is done to a penis by a self-anointed wronged woman.

But Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said violence is not OK. Mrs. Bobbitt "pulled the wool over the jury's eyes," Dershowitz said, by claiming that abuse left her unable to take responsibility for her actions.  He called her a "feminist Dirty Harry."  The "abuse excuse," Dershowitz explained, "is dangerous to the very tenets of democracy, which presuppose personal accountability for choices and actions."

Mona Charen, likewise, was in no mood to celebrate. She knew that the reaction of feminists, and of too many women, was as wrong as can be: "Rarely have I been as ashamed of my sex as I have been in the aftermath of the Lorena Bobbitt verdict."

The brilliant Charles Krauthammer, a Harvard educated psychiatrist before becoming a political pundit, said it best: this verdict took "political correctness to its ultimate extreme, to the point where for those who claim politically correct victimization, the laws no longer apply."

"Politically correct victimization" sums up the entire affair.

Legacy

The Bobbitt affair ripped off an ugly scab and exposed the even more loathsome oozing pus that mainstream feminism had become. It revealed a worse-than-nasty vindictive streak, so wide and drawn with such bright-lines, that proved feminism is less interested in achieving gender equity than in blindly punishing an entire gender for the unnamed sins of a tiny percentage of its members.

The principal legacy of the Bobbitt affair was to "empower" women by insisting they are powerless; because of that purported powerlessness, they are excused from assuming personal responsibility for their actions.  The problem is, the more we institutionalize the notion that women are powerless, the more we underscore that women really aren't men's equals. The Bobbitt affair was a setback for women's quest for true equality.

A more immediate impact was that copycat crimes cropped up and continue to crop up to this day, including the crime that led to the Brigitte Harris trial last year, where a young woman admitted to researching the Bobbitt case before severing her allegedly abusive father's penis. Ms. Harris made sure to burn the purportedly offending appendage to avoid Mrs. Bobbitt's mistake that allowed John Bobbitt to be reunited with his organ. Ms. Harris' father died in the ordeal, so his side of the story will never be known. (At the young woman's trial, the jurors convicted her of second degree manslaughter and not murder, which prompted the judge to chide the jurors for elevating their sympathies over the law.)

In writing this piece, I entertained the thought that perhaps the Bobbitt affair might present a lesson or two for men -- about domestic violence, and about how women view the world differently and that their viewpoint needs to be respected.  After all, John Bobbitt was no saint. There was plenty of evidence that he abused his wife during the course of their marriage (of course, there was ample evidence that she abused him, too).

I explored, and then rejected those notions as lacking any validity. The brutal act of mutilation, and the depraved reaction of feminists, the mainstream media, and, frankly, too many women, cannot be justified, or respected, on any reasonable, logical, moral, or other level.  The celebratory reaction and tolerance for this most vicious act of vengeance was morally grotesque and seemed largely the product of feminist fear-mongering about men as natural oppressors.  It was an all too predictable response to the systematic maligning of a gender over the course of several decades.  Any assertion that "feminism helps men, too" evaporated with the Bobbitt affair. The detestable reaction to the crime was too hateful to entertain such pretenses any longer. The only lesson for men from this ordeal was to avoid women like Lorena Bobbitt, and to realize that maleness is unfairly held in widespread contempt.

Following the mutilation, men, as a class, were exposed to a disdain many had not known existed, and they didn't know how to react to it.  But men's bewilderment was understandable.  In the days just before the Internet explosion, men didn't know that they were "all" rapists. Nor did anyone bother to explain to them that they were the supposed beneficiaries of a "patriarchy" that made them undeservedly privileged. You see, most men were too busy working to make ends meet, ironically, to support the very people who actually believed those loony things. So when women shamefully applauded the vile mutilation of another human being -- a man who was not privileged, or smart, or wealthy, or lucky -- all that men could muster in the face of this fusillade of misandry was a muffled and chivalrous grumble.

It is fittingly symbolic that John Bobbitt slept while his wife was busy slicing off his penis, because it mirrored the slumber of Western men while feminism hacked away at the very concept of masculinity.

But since that awful night in 1993, the men's movement has grown by the proverbial leaps and bounds. The Internet has exposed countless men to an ongoing battle of the sexes that they didn't even know was being waged at the time Mrs. Bobbitt committed her vile act.  If something like the Bobbitt case happened today, would it be met with a different reaction?  Would it bring to the front burner the issues of female-on-male domestic violence and false rape claims? No one can say for certain, but my guess is it would.  Without question, the debate would be far more heated, and men would actually answer the bell instead of sitting on a stool in a corner of the ring, allowing women to win by default.

Like Mr. Bobbitt, who was very rudely awakened by the cold, sharp steel cutting through his manhood, men, in general, are also awakening.  They are still groggy, and they are wiping the sleep from their eyes.  But soon, they will be wide awake, and with a little bit of luck, they will be able to grab the knife before they are completely emasculated.

Pictured above: "The Revenge of Lorena Bobbitt" by Sandow Birk

130 comments:

Anonymous said...

great article guys!!!

Anonymous said...

In the Age of constant " Gender feminist" faulty and inflamatory hate speech being fed to the public on most if not all media outlets..It justifies womens barbarism.

Anonymous said...

And you notice how she got off WITHOUT EVEN ONE DAY IN JAIL.

Remember this when the new anti rape condom is for sale here and you think women will be held accountable if they use it to intentionally hurt innocent Men.

Anonymous said...

Very disturbing.

john halder said...

and he took it just too well.
as soon as i got out of the hospital, i wouldve killed that whore

Axel said...

"And you notice how she got off WITHOUT EVEN ONE DAY IN JAIL."

I agree that this is far worse than a rape. The result is sick.

Anonymous said...

". . . as soon as i got out of the hospital, i wouldve killed that whore."

I suspect that a fear of being murdered is the only thing preventing some women from doing terrible things to men. They certainly have no need to fear prison.

Anonymous said...

MAn, this is like poetry. Poetry that makes me sick, but poetry.

Best lines: "They arrogated to any woman the right to exact the most gruesome vigilante justice on any "member" of any member of the opposite sex. The Bobbitt affair was feminist stardust wishfulness come true."

"Mrs. Bobbitt's version of the facts was the evolving narrative of a woman groping for victimhood."


"Progressive writers (we called them "liberal" back then) dubbed the affair a "cautionary tale" for men. The lesson wasn't that mutilating another human being is never justified; the lesson was that men had better wise up when it comes to how they treat women or they'll rightly lose their dicks."

"Nothing a woman could do would ever justify mutilation of her breasts or vagina. Yet vigilante justice directed at the penis of some below average guy was heralded with a giddy "you go, girlfriend!" heard around the world."

The entire Legacy section, esp. "It is fittingly symbolic that John Bobbitt slept while his wife was busy slicing off his penis, because it mirrored the slumber of Western men while feminism hacked away at the very concept of masculinity."

john halder said...

true! and the law must be changed. make filing a false 'rape' report a felony.
bitches will think twice. as long as it's a misdemeaner?
they'll keep on doin it.
just today, in orlando fl. 3 wimmin were arrested and charged with filing false rape reports, all separate incidents.

Anonymous said...

You did a couple of interesting things here.

First, you made it clear that John Bobbitt was not privileged but was just a loser. For the feminists to make him their whipping boy was pathetic.

Second, you don't excuse "women" as a group from blame. You seem to be saying that the bad conduct goes beyond feminists. I might be mistaken, but that seems out of character for this blog, but here it is most appropriate. Id suggest it's appropriate sometimes, but this is a good start.

Archivist said...

In the Orlando situation, they are calling it an EPIDEMIC of false rape claims.

Anonymous said...

Great post.

Anonymous said...

I love it.

Anonymous said...

I truly hope and trust that we're waking up to the unadulterated pain that feminism causes. Men and Women both. Feminism hurts women, too.

Anonymous said...

"I truly hope and trust that we're waking up to the unadulterated pain that feminism causes. Men and Women both. Feminism hurts women, too."

I don't think feminism has progressed in the 17 years since Bobbitt. I would hope women wouldn't go along with this shit now.

TheZetaMale said...

ive been waiting for this piece since you guys said you were making it

well said, i was 4 when this happened so ive heard bits and pieces about it glad to get the whole story

Anonymous said...

If stabbing a man in the penis isn't rape then I don't know what is. If he had stabbed her in the vagina with a knife then there would have been no jokes and absolutely no possibility of him getting anything but a massive prison sentence.

But this is modern America and we don't care about men. Oh-- and Lorena should go to prison for lying about a rape, too.

Anonymous said...

OT: An excellent piece at the Huffington Post, about the Kobe Bryant nifonging:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-alan-silverman/kobe-bryant-shouldnt-have_b_617742.html

As Kobe Bryant moves forward, with his wife Vanessa and daughters at his side, I think it important to recall a time when life treated the Bryants unfairly. Kobe Bryant should never have been prosecuted for sexual assault in Colorado. Hindsight on this matter is indeed twenty-twenty.

Anonymous said...

If I remember correctly Lorena said "it raped me", referring to John's penis.

Anonymous said...

OT: I found this outstanding resource at Democracy for America: podcasts that teach the skills of political activism, including honing your message, building grassroots support, etc.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/nightschoolspring06

They have a whole series of these. They're excellent.

Anonymous said...

"She was acting out a fantasy that's in the psyche of many women."

Anonymous said...

A comment about 2:31: one very important skill for any political activist is being able to whittle down your message to a tight format. Many politicians and journalists use the 27:9:3 format -- that's 27 words, three points of nine words each.

For example (although this isn't strictly three points):

"Reducing rape reporting fraud is important. False rape accusations are just as harmful as rape and the victims are fully entitled to equal justice -- regardless of gender."

Mail that to a newspaper editor and it will look and sounds good, and convey a message that is very difficult to argue against.

Another important point from that video: lying to the people you're trying to convince is suicidal. You always want to tell people the truth, which obviously gives us an advantage over feminist false rape enablers.

Fidelbogen said...

I am glad to see that a taboo subject has been broached here, namely the dark communal psychopathology which operates as an objective force among the female population.

"Feminism" is effectively little more than a sticky-note stuck on the top of that writhing, twisting mess.

Take away the word 'feminism', and the underlying psychic condition among large numbers of women would remain in effect as ever, albeit 'undergrounded'.

The purpose of "feminism", over the years, has been to impart a political form and focus to these nameless, inchoate inner-space demons, and to effectively bring these forces to a head.

Anonymous said...

It seems those falsely accused of rape have a non feminist ally.

Baroness Stern

Harriet Harman's 'unreliable statistics on rape scare off victims'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257981/Harriet-Harmans-unreliable-statistics-rape-scare-victims.html#ixzz0rf4Jyix0

Anonymous said...

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/03/major-news-stern-review-calls-for.html

Anonymous said...

http://www.angryharry.com/esStopLyingHarman.htm

Anonymous said...

john halder said...
and he took it just too well.
as soon as i got out of the hospital, i wouldve killed that whore

Jun 22, 2010 10:31:00 PM

I believe that is one of the many reasons why feminists fought so hard to get the sexist and unconstitutional crime bill VAWA passed. Women would be "empowered" to harm men, as well as, make false accusations against them/destroy their lives and, be under special protection from retalliation.

Anonymous said...

International Violence against Women Act Faces Stiff Opposition From Unexpected Quarter



'A Human life is full of sufferings. However concern for fellow human beings must always be accompanied by Compassion. Concern without compassion is called fraud.On Feb 04, 2010, Senator John Kerry and others reintroduced I-VAWA (International Violence against Women Act) in Senate and US House of representatives. This bill if passed will fund 1 Billion Dollars for forcing Governments across 10 to 15 countries for stringent laws and policies to prevent violence against women. This bill is handled by Senate and House Foreign Affairs Committees.

Within two weeks of introduction of the bill in both Senate and House, the members of Save Indian Family Foundation and the Civil Liberties Groups in US started opposing it saying that this bill will not help the abused women, but will only lead to Civil Liberties Violations by jailing of innocent men, women and children under gender biased laws in many countries including India. They wanted statutory language in this bill to prevent this one billion dollars getting into vested interests, agencies and NGOs, who undermine civil liberties.'

http://desicritics.org/2010/06/13/090148.php

False rape and false sexual assault accusations are violent crimes.

Anonymous said...

UK: Woman admits false Norwich rape claim

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/eveningnews24/norwich-news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=xNews&itemid=NOED17%20Jun%202010%2016%3A01%3A15%3A737

Anonymous said...

Woman in court for false rape charges

http://newstalkradiowhio.com/localnews/2010/06/lebanon-woman-in-court-for-fal.html

Orlando police today will discuss false rape report

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-orlando-false-rape-20100622,0,181782.story

A tool of misandry;

South Africa Debuts Anti-Rape Female Condom, seeks testing "during World Cup"

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/south-africa-debuts-anti-rape-condom-with-teeth/19524138

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Archivist. Excellent post.

Anonymous said...

I think that we should be very careful not to say things like, "When I got out of the hospital I would have killed the whore."

Remember: we are held to a higher standard than the idiots who call for automatic castration of falsely accused men.

Anonymous said...

Why do reporters feel the need to get the opinion of some moonbat feminist, every time they write about rape?

"The leader of the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence acknowledged that false rape reports make it harder for those who are real victims and also harder for police and others who serve victims.

But Jennifer Dritt said police drawing attention to the false reports doesn't help, either.

"Ninety-two, 98 percent of [rape] reports are truthful, real," said Dritt, executive director of FCASV, which is based in Tallahassee. "That's not necessarily any more true than for a case of, say, insurance fraud or burglary. And it makes victims even less inclined to come forward.

"It also contributes to the myth that women falsify the rape when they don't.""

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-06-22/news/os-orlando-false-rape-20100622_1_false-rape-reports-jennifer-dritt-real-victims

Anonymous said...

"Police said false reporting has reached an epidemic level. They said they will arrest anyone who makes a false report about a crime because doing so is against the law."

http://www.wesh.com/news/23991233/detail.html

Archivist said...

Anon at 10:09, I wrote to the reporter of that piece already. Here's my note:

Dear sir,

I founded the nation's leading site that gives voice to victims of false rape claims. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/ You cited in your article on rape the assertion of a sexual assault advocate on the prevalence of false rape claims. She said that "[n]inety-two, 98 percent of [rape] reports are truthful, real . . .."

This is patently absurd, and these sorts of advocacy stats were long ago debunked. To allow that assertion to go unchallenged is unconscionable. (And my reading of her quote suggests that she'd prefer you not even report false rape claim cases, which is just breathtaking.)

You would do well to understand the facts, because false rape claims are a serious issue -- in your area, and everywhere. The following cite objectively verifiable sources that can't be plausibly challenged -- when you look at these, which do not make wild claims, you should be able to tell that they are unbiased. And when you check into what they assert, you will confirm their veracity:

http://www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/

http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v33-issue3/greer.pdf

TO BE CONTINUED

Archivist said...

PART II OF MY NOTE:

Here is the reality, sir: No one knows for certain the percentage of false rape claims. No one. A leading feminist legal scholar recently acknowledged: ". . . the statistics on false rape accusation widely vary and 'as a scientific matter, the frequency of false rape complaints to police or other legal authorities remains unknown.'" A. Gruber, Rape, Feminism, and the War on Crime, 84 Wash. L. Rev. 581, 595-600 (November 2009) (citation omitted). (Please note: "unknown," sir.)

It is patently erroneous to assert that only a tiny percentage of rape claims are false because no one can make that assertion with any degree of certainty. The prevalence of false rape claims is neither known nor knowable. Here is why: for every rape claim reported, only a relatively small percentage can be definitively called "rape." This is beyond dispute. Approximately fifteen percent end in conviction and of those we know that some innocent men and boys are convicted. We also know that some claims reported (the numbers vary depending on the study) are outright false. But in between the claims we are reasonably certain were actual rapes, and the ones we are reasonably certain were false claims, is a vast gray area consisting of a group of claims that cannot properly be classified as "rapes" -- because we just don't know. That's the nature of a rape claim. The claims in this vast gray middle area often suffer from evidentiary infirmities. (For example, for some such claims, while the claimant herself might think a rape occurred, her outward manifestations of assent did not match her subjective disinclination to engage in sex, so it wasn't rape.) How on earth do people, like the woman you cite, claim the vast majority of these were "rape"? This would mean that she knows, for example, that a man acquitted of rape -- and innumerable men who weren't even charged -- are rapists. How can she say that?

Regardless, every impartial, unbiased objective study on the subject (studies not commissioned or conducted by someone with a financial interest in insisting rape is rampant) shows false rape claims are a very serious problem. As reported by "False Rape Allegations" by Eugene Kanin, Archives of Sexual Behavior Feb 1994 v23 n1 p81 (12), Professor Kanin’s major study of a mid-size Midwestern U.S. city over the course of nine years found that 41 percent of all rape claims were false. Kanin also studied the police records of two unnamed large state universities, and found that in three years, 50 percent of the 64 rapes reported to campus police were determined to be false (without the use of polygraphs). In addition, a landmark Air Force study in 1985 studied 556 rape allegations. It found that 27% of the accusers recanted, and an independent evaluation revealed a false accusation rate of 60%. McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.

TO BE CONTINUED

Archivist said...

PART III OF MY NOTE

See also, "Until Proven Innocent," the widely praised (praised even by the New York Times, which the book skewers -- as well as most other major U.S. news source) and painstaking study of the Duke Lacrosse non-rape case. Authors Stuart Taylor and Professor K.C. Johnson explain that the exact number of false claims is elusive but "[t]he standard assertion by feminists that only 2 percent" or sexual assault claims "are false, which traces to Susan Brownmiller's 1975 book 'Against Our Will,' is without empirical foundation and belied by a wealth of empirical data. These data suggest that at least 9 percent and probably closer to half" of all sexual assault claims "are false . . . ." (Page 374.)

By the way, you also need to study the government stats these advocate organizations toss your way. You can't just take their word for it. Organizations such as NOW and RAINN rely on the U.S Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey to insist that rape is rampant and largely underreported. What those organizations do not publicize is that this survey, conducted by in-person and telephone interviews, defines rape as follows: "Forced sexual intercourse including both psychological coercion as well as physical force. . . . Includes attempted rapes . . . Attempted rape includes verbal threats of rape." (Emphasis supplied.) You need to scroll to page 131 out of 133 to find that definition. Putting aside other problems with the definition, "psychological coercion," of course, can mean all manner of things, including "I'll take your mother to the doctors tomorrow if you make love to me tonight," and that is not rape -- in your state, or anywhere else. It is astounding that a government agency allows these issues to become so terribly politicized.

Rape is a serious problem. So are false rape claims -- even though it's terribly politically incorrect to discuss them. We hope that in the future you challenge advocacy stats by making clear that there's not just "another side" to the story -- but that the advocate's stats are unreliable. And please -- please -- don't just take her word for it.

Thank you.

Respectfully,

Pierce Harlan

slwerner said...

"Respectfully,

Pierce Harlan"


Wow! Just Wow! What more can, or needs to be said?

Pierce, I just have to say it...You Da Man!

Archivist said...

This was a comment left under this story over at Reddit Mens Rights:

"Oh yeah, I remember the women in my family (avowed feminists, one & all - at the time) positively crowing about this when it happened. It was both hilarious and very empowering."

My reply:

"Yes, very 'empowering' to laugh at the mutilation of an unprivileged, unlucky, working class nobody -- who likely was falsely accused of rape, by the way. That tells us all we need to know about those horrible people."

Archivist said...

Thanks, slwerner.

And thanks to the other readers who liked this post on Bobbit. It takes a lot to disgust me, but this truly disgusted me.

Uno Hu said...

It was no less than a brutal attack, and justice was not to be found in the courts.

He had the option of killing her himself when she was released from the hospital. He would have been justified in doing so, had he chosen to. That he did not is his decision.

Had he killed her, and were I on the jury, I'd have found him insane and sentenced him to 45 days observation in a mental facility.

Justice for the goose is justice for the gander.

Anonymous said...

Insanity only works for women. I loved this part of the post:

"In 1991, the governors of Ohio and Maryland commuted the sentences of a number of jailed women who had killed or assaulted their mates because they claimed to have been victims of battered-woman syndrome. But reporters turned up embarrassing evidence indicating that 15 of the 25 women freed in Ohio had not been physically abused. Six, they said, had talked about killing their boyfriends or husbands. in some cases months before doing so; and two had tracked down and killed husbands from whom they were separated. If they were capable of that much premeditation, they were certainly capable of picking up and leaving."

Anonymous said...

"Anon at 10:09, I wrote to the reporter of that piece already. Here's my note:"

Same anon here, that thank you for sending and sharing that note. Perhaps this situation in Orlando deserves it's own entry.

What seems to be the case is that there might be a serial rapist who is breaking into homes, and at the same time a significant number of false reports.

On a somewhat related note, there was also a rash of false rape accusations this past year in Florida during Spring Break. Unfortunately, the press made much more of an effort reporting them as rapes, than they did after they turned out false.

Anonymous said...

This is one of the best articles I've ever seen for the men's movement.

john halder said...

http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html

Archivist said...

Here's the entire report:

http://falserapearchives.blogspot.com/2009/06/archives-of-sexual-behavior-feb-1994.html

Tony said...

If I was the dude, I would have hunted her down and tortured her to death. This bitch got off way too easy.

Anonymous said...

Calling for violence hurts our cause more than anything.

As such, foolish comments like this should be deleted.

Axel said...

I agree that wishing violence on people is wrong, even those who have done terrible things. Those sorts of comments are just venting. Besides, if FRS started deleting comments from guys wishing violence on Lorena Bobbitt, then they'd also have to delete all the statements justifying the violence against John Bobbitt -- and there goes the post! Hell, some of those people won Pulitzer Prizes.

Anonymous said...

I agree, but comments like that are very dangerous for us, because we are viewed are pro-criminal by those who are sympathetic to feminism (which is most people). It would be very easy for law enforcement to point at comments like that and cry: "TERRORISM!!!"

We should step very, very lightly in this regard.

Tony Montana (you wanna play rough?) said...

I agree, but comments like that are very dangerous for us, because we are viewed are pro-criminal by those who are sympathetic to feminism (which is most people). It would be very easy for law enforcement to point at comments like that and cry: "TERRORISM!!!"

We should step very, very lightly in this regard.
_______________________________
TRANSLATION:
I'm a sack less mangina who wants all men to express themselves like mindless emotionless automatons. I'm also a boot licker who wants men to placate female supremacists in the vain hope they will realize their foibles and have a miraculous change of heart. Wait, did I mention how women are just as smart, strong, rational, logical and compassionate as men. After all, if women, those noble misunderstood creatures, ruled the Earth, we'd all be one big peaceful happy world just like all those single mother households in America.

Axel said...

Yeah. We need to openly discourage violence of any kind. Some of those comments, which are just cringe-worthy, might actually be trolls. You know, feminists thinking that the readers here actually agree with those sentiments. I believe the best antidote to those sentiments is comments like yours and mine: we do not accept violence. Violence is what feminists preach (not "as the weapon of first choice," as the one feminist said in the story, but as "innovative resistance against gender oppression").

Tony Montana (say hello to my little friend) said...

This site is full of female apologists who continue to perpetuate the delusional myth of equality. If men who've had their lives turned upside down cannot express a healthy dose of anger and indignation then this site is nothing more than at watering down and muting the voices of REAL men by a group who desperately wishes to be part of the mainstream.

Here's the problem: the mainstream media is pathological and needs to be actively countered, not wooed as the course of action this site has chosen.

Anonymous said...

I'm a sack less mangina who wants all men to express themselves like mindless emotionless automatons.

***


You can't beat feminism with balls. Only brains can accomplish that -- of which you appear to have all too little.

Undisciplined, self-indulgent violent rhetoric plays right into the feminists' hands and reinforces every vile stereotype about men. But apparently that's not as important as you proving that you ate your red meat raw today.

Anonymous said...

Also: "sack less" is one word.

Archivist said...

I appreciate all the commetns about violence. I know that this story has enraged people, because it enraged me when I was researching it. And, yes, sometimes rage is the only appropriate response (even in the New Testament, the story of the money changers in the temple).

Now, if John had been awake when she came at him with the knife, he'd be entitled to do whatever he needed to do to protect himself. Unfortunately, she made sure to do this when he couldn't fight back.

Let me suggest something: the reason we are all outraged is that this woman literally got away with a terrible act of violence. And then she was APPLAUDED for committing what was literally, and officially, an insane act. Unlike the feminists, we believe in due process. And personal accountability (and did you see -- once again, Dershowitz was the voice of reason). We didn't get that in the Bobbitt case, and we don't get it in many other areas where men are hurt. The answer is to get out there and insist that things change. Violence will only accomplish the very thing we hate -- the unilateral dispensation with due process. It will not change the law, but it will hurt our cause ("Look! More violent white males!"), and it will cause men who could be doing something productive to be imprisoned.

Anonymous said...

Very well said, Archivist. You are a giant in our movement.

Anonymous said...

Do giants eat raw meat and breathe fire?

Archivist said...

Think Ethan Edwards from "The Searchers" -- greatest American film ever made -- and you'll have a good idea what it's like dealing with me. As some of you who know me might suspect, I think I'm becoming that character.

Tony Redux said...

Undisciplined, self-indulgent violent rhetoric plays right into the feminists' hands and reinforces every vile stereotype about men.
________________________

Why are you so concerned with what does and doesn't play into the hands of feminists? Without men's law enforcement and approval, feminists and their hateful ideology are nothing more than aging spinsters shrieking loudly, but ultimately powerlessly, into the wind. The vast majority of women will fall into line with whatever norm the male collective decides on. And by needlessly kowtowing to hypocritical feminist rules of engagement, you voluntarily stifle righteous judgment against female hypocrisy. The message you send to male visitors is the problem of false rape and all others isn't really worth our moral indignation and outrage. Remember who your audience is: young men. It's not women, and it never will be.

Archivist said...

By the way, Axel at 3:32 quoted one of the more repulsive things in that piece: the feminist who wrote to the New York Times and talked about "innovative resistance against gender oppression." I actually cut my hand on a juice glass when I read that, I was so pissed.

Picture it: a bunch of uber-enlightened Womyns Studies majors getting together with their wine on a Saturday night and they sit around laughing uprouariously about some uneducated, unemployed male having his dick cut off. HA HA HA! Real fun night out. And about how he deserved it, and what she should have done with the offending object. Yeah. Some working class guy is their peronal pinata, the object of their sport for weeks and weeks, I am sure.

What's so terribly ironic, but lost on those banshees, is that they are far more priviledged than Bobbitt ever was.

Anonymous said...

*** I actually cut my hand on a juice glass when I read that, I was so pissed ***

Why were you drinking out of a broken glass?

Archivist said...

Cause I like the taste of glass shards.

I broke it, ya idiot.

Dr. Snark said...

"Why were you drinking out of a broken glass?"

Because he's badass.

Masculist Man said...

Anonymous Jun 23, 2010 2:50:00 PM

Calling for censorship? Real brave while hiding behind "anonymous".

Masculist Man said...

Tony Montana sums it up perfectly.

Masculist Man said...

You can't beat feminism with balls. Only brains can accomplish that -- of which you appear to have all too little.

Undisciplined, self-indulgent violent rhetoric plays right into the feminists' hands and reinforces every vile stereotype about men. But apparently that's not as important as you proving that you ate your red meat raw today.


***MANGINA ALERT****MANGINA ALERT***

Jim said...

Translation of Tony Montana: "I'm a fembot impersonating a parody of an MRA talking a lot of cheap smack at the grown-ups in the thread."

And Tony - what kind of a man has a name like Montana? Isn't that the name of some little song-and-dance wench?

Off-topic - interesting development in RI. Note how the judge expresses concern that Brown didn't call the police when they thought there had been a rape, or treated this kid like a rpaist when they didn't think a rpae had actually occurred enough to call the police.
http://www.projo.com/news/content/BROWN_SUIT_05-02-10_RRI7DJF_v35.3f24738.html
Found at Glenn Sacks.

Anonymous said...

ACTIVISM OPPORTUNITY

Almost none of the information in this article is mentioned in the relevant Wikipedia entry and it's very biased against the victim. I'd urge people to edit the article (using references) as that's the number one results when Googling this subject.

Nashvegas said...

@ Tony Montana & Masculist Man:
Read this again, slowly and carefully:

"Unlike the feminists, we believe in due process... Violence will only accomplish the very thing we hate -- the unilateral dispensation with due process. It will not change the law, but it will hurt our cause..."

Those of us who desire to live in a modern, western, civilized society are not "MANGINAS" and are not intimidated by your insults. Calls for violence or vigilante justice are barbaric, ignorant and make you sound like complete buffoons. They also hurt this cause, assuming you even give a shit about that.

Maybe you're trying to be just as irrational and extremist as radical feminism -- if so, well done.

Nashvegas said...

@ Archivist:
Obviously, much work went into this excellent piece. Thanks and bravo!

Arod99k said...

Good job !!!

Arod99k said...

the National Criminal Justice Commission Act

• A commission could help identify why wrongful convictions happen and how they can be prevented by looking more closely at the causes of wrongful conviction and recommending improvements that would help prevent miscarriages of justice and increase public safety.

• The increase in incarceration over the past twenty years has stretched the system beyond its limits. These high costs to taxpayers are unsustainable, especially during these times of economic downturn.

• The proposed commission would not demand audits of state systems or enforce mandates, but rather conduct a comprehensive national review and issue recommendations for consideration.

Once you’ve made the calls, please let us know how they went, and ask your friends to join you in calling on the Senate on this critical issue today share this message with one click via email, Facebook or Twitter.

Thank you for making this call-in day a success,


The Innocence Project

Tony (the Scar) said...

@Nashvegas said..

a) I never said let's commit acts of violence against women or anyone else. If you ever learn how to read for comprehension, I said "IF i were that dude, I would...". This is called a hypothetical and it allows REAL men to voice their displeasure with impotent diplomatic pansies like you.

b) "Unlike the feminists, we believe in due process..."

Yeah, and a shitload of good that did Mr. Bobbitt. He has the satisfaction of knowing his mutilator served a whole 45 days in group therapy. Yaaaay

"They also hurt this cause, assuming you even give a shit about that."

No, what hurts are cause are pseudo-intellectual moles like you acting as language police and castrating open discourse at the shaft.

Are you sure your pair is intact? You may need to visit Manhood101.com for a refresher course.

Anonymous said...

Why are you so concerned with what does and doesn't play into the hands of feminists? Without men's law enforcement and approval, feminists and their hateful ideology are nothing more than aging spinsters shrieking loudly, but ultimately powerlessly, into the wind. The vast majority of women will fall into line with whatever norm the male collective decides on. And by needlessly kowtowing to hypocritical feminist rules of engagement, you voluntarily stifle righteous judgment against female hypocrisy. The message you send to male visitors is the problem of false rape and all others isn't really worth our moral indignation and outrage. Remember who your audience is: young men. It's not women, and it never will be.

***

Where did anybody say you couldn't express your moral indignation and outrage? A righteous message travels a lot further when it isn't hindered by childish, idiotic violent comments.

The reason I am concerned about what does and doesn't play into the hands of feminists is because I live in the real world, not in a fantasy where the majority of women will automatically follow the male consensus, and where you can build such a consensus by making cheap, pointless threats.

Do women vote along the same lines as men, or do the majority of them vote Democratic while most men vote Republican? We need to be rational if we want to promote our agenda.

Anonymous said...

You keep talking about testicles, pansies, intellectual wimps, having a bigger, less inhibited shaft than we do -- all behind your big ol' tough guy Hollywood movie gangster moniker.

Sir, you need to learn the difference between advocating FOR men in an intelligent way, as opposed to promoting your cornball conceptions of masculinity that actually DEMEAN men.

I am 100% on the side of the "pansy," the wimp, the guy with smaller balls than Brock Lesnar -- just as much as I'm on the side of swaggering John Wayne-like retrosexuals. I am in favor of rights for ALL men, not just some.

Anonymous said...

OT- I'll now interrupt this spat to present some incredible news:

Al Gore had a false sexual assault accuser in 2006: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/23/oregon-woman-accused-gore-unwanted-sexual-contact/

No man is safe.

NO man.

Anonymous said...

Wow, not a double, not a triple, but a quadruple post! I remember the first time I used the Internet.

+1000 Anon @ 8:02! Tony Party (the scarface) Montana Redux reminds me of all the guys I knew in high school and college that talked like he does: constant ball/shaft/dick references coupled with being way over-defensive about their cartoonish, forced masculinity. Funny thing is they ALL turned out to be gay. Every last one. And they were so much happier and pleasant to be around after coming out. Just sayin'

Anonymous said...

Listen, I will not stand here and have you all ridicule Tony for being gay. I knew he was gay the minute he started overcompensating. He's a human being, too, and he's not deserving of being beaten up, figuratively or literally, just because he's queer.

Anonymous said...

This is called a hypothetical and it allows REAL men to voice their displeasure with impotent diplomatic pansies like you.

***

So that really means, "I wish I was sucking your cock!

Anonymous said...

The Gender / Raunch community gain "Empowerment" by attacking masculinity, male fatherhood, and anything male. They have no moral compass, and will in fact use faulty and inflamatory missinformation to reach their "Adgenda"

E. Steven Berkimer said...

Ok,

I'm going to ask that all of the insults stop. This post is too important to get sidetracked by everyone acting like schoolchildren. I really would like to avoid suspending comments, but if the insults continue, I will.

Please keep it clean, and argue the comment, and keep the personal attacks out of it please.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Thanx steve, all the cock talk degrades the dialogue into "Raunch talk".
You can tell alot from a person by the language that comes out of their mouths..folks can spot a "Gender / Raunch" within minutes of talking with them.

Anonymous said...

Great post that shines a light on a great day of shame for all those who gloried in it. The suspension of common compassion on that day was simply stunning.

I have often reflected on it, and three factors seem to have coincided that made so many women terrible to watch.

The first is their collective sense of a crime done to, or judgment made of, a single women as something done to all women.

The second is that brooding blood-lust that they have with regard to men, and which is becoming more and more apparent in their daily diet of television entertainment.

The last is their use of evasiveness to avoid consequences - in other words, their desire to change the subject and shift attention away from the most obvious focus. The rush to embrace feminist nonsense about Loren Bobbitt being a victim was largely motivated by a desire to avoid conversation about her brutality - the female veil of virtue had to be maintained at all costs (this was more recently seen in the Tiger Woods case, where the most interesting aspect of the incident - his battery by a violent women - was immediately buried beneath an avalanche of condemnation of his private, though lawful, life).

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
OT- I'll now interrupt this spat to present some incredible news:

Al Gore had a false sexual assault accuser in 2006: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/23/oregon-woman-accused-gore-unwanted-sexual-contact/

No man is safe.

NO man.

Jun 23, 2010 8:34:00 PM

His accuser sat on this for about two years.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of the Mary Winkler case in so many ways. Both women committed horrible crimes and both got off easy.

Anonymous said...

Lorena eventually led to Crystal, and the "Castrate!" banner at Duke. The feminist bigots have evolved an agenda of hate that continues unabated.

john halder said...

i remember this outrage like it happened yesterday.

if i committed a lil female genital mutilation?

i wouldnt be blogging for a while. like ten years.

all this blogging is great, but when do we form OUR NOW org?
I'M never voting again, thats useless, 2 sides, same coin, and i dont do the useless petition thing either.

i signed the get rid of lieberamn thing, you see how effective THAT was.
the national organization of men. sounds great to me.

Anonymous said...

I would prefer a MoveOn.org for men's rights. NOW is just a handful of fat, stinky cows who don't care about their membership.

Anonymous said...

John, continue voting; if you don't vote then you give the bad guys your permission to run your life. It's not important that your guy wins, but it is important that you don't give up your voting rights.

Vote, and contribute a little money.

john halder said...

o.k, either one sounds good to me.
it just needs to happen to get things DONE like repealing these unfair anti-male laws., custody bullshit, lifetime alimony, etc

this mra blogging is almost exactly like the antiwar blogging
its great but doesnt change anything

extremely expensive american imperialism continues, civilians over there keep dying in droves, and drones. no end in sight either. nope, wont be leaving iraq next year either. america will be there for the rest of this century

john halder said...

well, the only person i would vote for is nader. 3rd party is the ONLY chance america has, short of revolution. obama is simply bush lite.

john halder said...

ha, i wouldnt contribute one damn penny for either party. they dont represent me, shit

Dr. Snark said...

"Thanx steve, all the cock talk degrades the dialogue into "Raunch talk".
You can tell alot from a person by the language that comes out of their mouths..folks can spot a "Gender / Raunch" within minutes of talking with them."

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Dr. Snark said...

"this mra blogging is almost exactly like the antiwar blogging
its great but doesnt change anything"

Change comes slowly.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I would prefer a MoveOn.org for men's rights. NOW is just a handful of fat, stinky cows who don't care about their membership.

Jun 24, 2010 2:39:00 AM

"NOW is just a handful of fat, stinky cows who don't care about their membership."


You got that right! They have expoited and perversed the image of women more than fashion modeling and porn. They couldn't give a rat's ass about anything except their own evil agendas.

Anonymous said...

AND THEY KNOW IT!

Anonymous said...

John: I wouldn't even call Obama 'Bush light.' He's gone further beyond the pale than Bush on civil liberties.

Archivist said...

"Change comes slowly," said Dr. Snark. And he's right.

Glenn Sacks and Dr. Holstein are actually effecting real change on the shared parenting front. That's because they are taken seriously. They write in a rational, intelligent manner and don't make claims they can't support.

FIRE effects real change in the cases it tackles, because it, too, is a serious site that backs up what it says with precedent.

William Donohue at the Catholic League got Amanda Marcotte fired from the Edwards campaign.

Anyone who knows the subject and who can present arguments in a rational, coherent way, can effect change. When we protested to the New York Times about the way it worded an article, we couched our objection in an argument no one could plausibly dispute. They changed the article.

When we get journalists and self-identified feminists to write to us in a conciliatory manner after we've challenged them and they say, "OK, give me the authorities where I was wrong because I need to know for the future," that, too, is a victory. When major news outlets contact us for a quote or for information, that, too, is a victory.

The path to victory is to present yourself as a serious site that knows the issues instead of a site does nothing but vents. Venting has its place, but it doesn't effect change in our current culture.

Dr. Snark said...

"Glenn Sacks and Dr. Holstein are actually effecting real change on the shared parenting front. That's because they are taken seriously. They write in a rational, intelligent manner and don't make claims they can't support."

Yes. Yes. A lot of us can learn from this - and by the way, I most DEFINITELY include myself in that.

john halder said...

i have my doubts about any real effective change. this misandrist/feminist garbage is too firmly entrenched. women own the voting bloc, the coppigscsum( their best buds) the media, congress, and worst of all!? we might just have us a female president soon!

and feminism is infecting india badly.
lotta guys on twitter in india, NOT a happy bunch. lemme tell ya!

like america's imperialist foreign policy, summed up in one word: bomb.

i only see it getting worse

Dr. Snark said...

"i have my doubts about any real effective change. this misandrist/feminist garbage is too firmly entrenched."

Nothing is ever so firmly entrenched that it can't be changed. The world is in flux and always will be.

Anonymous said...

Let's not get distracted by using the term "feminism" as a broad umbrella. It's useful to think that way for the purposes of rallying men to the support of a wide range of men's issues, but sometimes we need to step back.

We have a huge advantage on the false rape accusation front: namely, that the false rape accusers themselves are never going to stop, and that more and more famous men (Al Gore being the latest) will fall victim to them, and that the only common sense thing to do is to punish them very harshly when they are caught.

Stark naked sexism can't prevail forever, and when it comes to FRAs that's what we're up against. Many voices in the media now at least acknowledge that false accusations are a problem.

john halder said...

oh i agree! i live in central florida, the 'false rape state'!

haha, i don't know if that'll pull those tourists in . better keep it the sunshine state.

all these fake rape twits are definetly good in that its shining a light on this problem.
even the ol' gynocentric media is having a hard time sweeping this under the table, ha

Social Worker said...

Very impressive article and commentary, Archivist.
I was very young when this happened so really only knew the watered down public version, some of his reality show stuff and what I had read on feminist websites. The attitude towards John Bobbitt is truly deplorable.
I had thought, wrongly, that she ended up being re-tried and served time. That should have happened.

I even enjoyed some of the OT banter back and forth. (Salty, indeed, Dr.)
To me, it highlights what I've written here before re: the women's movement. Not everyone agrees or is even close to the same page.
We are all individuals with varied opinions and identifying with a particular group does NOT mean we buy everything the group is selling.

Dr. Snark said...

"We are all individuals with varied opinions and identifying with a particular group does NOT mean we buy everything the group is selling."

Doesn't really work for Nazis, the KKK, or feminists.

Dr. Snark said...

My position is explained in more detail here:

http://remasculation.blogspot.com/2010/03/sermons-of-filth.html

http://remasculation.blogspot.com/2010/05/earnest-feminism.html

http://remasculation.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-long-can-they-pin-it-on-fringe.html

Go read those, before you respond.

Anonymous said...

Social Worker: I'm glad to hear that, and in the long run the feminists would be better off if more of them had that attitude.

E. Steven Berkimer said...

SW,

While it is great that not all share the same views, you aren't nearly as vocal or, as most within the MRM/MRA/FRA can tell, willing to speak up and tell those who are the most vocal and rabid, to STFU. That rabid group has OWNED the public discourse so far, with others unwilling to stand up and say, "HEY, that's not what we stand for". So you will understand when there is resentment, anger, etc., toward those that identify themselves as feminist.

And the cries of NAWALT (I'll explain if needed), really ring false, when those who are rabid and call all men "rapists", aren't countered by others who don't believe that.

Feminism, and feminists, have done a very successful job, give them their due, at demonizing all that is male/masculine.

There are a lot of pissed off men, who are now fighting back, and it scares those leaders of the feminist movement, as it should. Men are waking up and refusing to be the punching bag of feminism. Equality was asked for, and men are going to make sure it happens. The problem is, I don't really think most women understand how crappy the majority of men have it. And when they find out, I am going to sit back and laugh. The old saying "be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it", comes to mind.

Dr. Snark said...

Well, I just got what I wished for.

Social Worker said...

And the cries of NAWALT (I'll explain if needed),:
"Not all women are like that?" I'm thinking. I'm usually pretty good at acronyms or other word-type games.

I understand the anger. There is definitely a lot of demonizing coming from the "Feminist" side. Conversely, I understand the anger from women who have been hurt as well. It's not okay for ANYbody to feel less-then or defensive about who they are. It's not okay for ANYbody to make others feel that way.

So, it saddens me that men are treated (and I know they are) as you discuss here. I also know (and have read others here acknowledge) that many women have suffered at the hands of men.

The good Dr. makes the point very clear on his blog(and I have read your posts,Dr.) that feminists who don't embrace the mantra MUST decry core feminists with their every breath.
I agree with the sentiments, but not the tone. A piece of what feminism (in the sense of any freedom movement) reinforces is the right to say who I am. True for all of us.
I am my own person and will pick and choose where my alliances are.
I will denounce where I have the energy and interest; I will agree where I have the passion. In doing so, I suppose I partly define myself.
I won't be "sermonized" into defending who I am by fitting into anyone's idea of how to separate myself from the rhetoric.
If you look down on me for that, so be it.

I've joked on here before that I've been called misogynist on my feminist sites and feminazi on MRA sites for pretty much saying the same thing. It puts me in a difficult place sometimes, but I've chosen to be there.
I'm not looking to score points, just make them and learn from others.

We here must fight for the falsely accused. It's a struggle I believe in. But I don't choose between this and my belief in supporting women's rights in other areas.

I've taken this OT and didn't mean to.
What Lorena Bobbitt did was a hateful, vindictive thing. That was her. Those throughout the years who lauded what she did were wrong. That was them.

I'm me. And I guess that's my only point.

Dr. Snark said...

The point isn't that I am DEMANDING that gender egalitarians who identify as 'feminist' must exhaust themselves condoning their 'sisters'.

I am not making any kind of demands, on anyone.

What I am saying is that there is a very black and white choice - you do one or the other.

If you identify as feminist, you can either:
1. qualify that label by making explicit your opposition to the misandrists who have appropriated said label, or
2. remain silent about the misandrists, and enjoy the label nonetheless, in which case you are condoning the misandrists. In short: you are rolling around in the shit, with the rest of the pigs!

That's not making demands of anyone, it's simply the only choices open to you if you retain the label.

And since there is an OVERWHELMING amount of evilness emanating from the feminist sector, then yes, one who sticks to the label with qualification would have to spend an EXHAUSTING amount of time qualifying herself! - or else, yes, she is condoning the evil.

Think: "I'm a National Socialist, but I think that what they did to the Jews was just terrible! And I object to their policy of exterminating the handicapped ..."

And on and on and on ... as opposed to "hi, I'm a Nazi."

Of course, it would be easier for that person to just drop the 'Nazi' tag, since the ideology itself seems to embody evil and harm, and this person doesn't seem to support those things!

Anonymous said...

Why be a feminist? Why not just be a human being?

Archivist said...

I can understand that some people want to hold onto the "feminist" identifier, thinking that they only subscribe to the aspirational notions expressed (e.g., gender equality, etc.). The problem is that the term has become so loaded, so weighted down with misandrist baggage that it is not worth the effort to self-identify as feminist since, in order to be fair -- in order to be taken seriously, you'll need to distance yourself from innumerable aspects of it that have crept into the mainstream.

Example: once NOW supported "shared parenting." But NOW currently it opposes it, citing the male abuser problem.

Feminists do not acknowledge that false rape claims are a serious problem.

Feminists insist rape is rampant, on campus, and everywhere, when the stats and common sense don't support it. They rely on underreporting to make their argument, a concept so terribly politicized that it can't be spoken about with any certainty.

They don't especially care about the one place where rape is rampant, prisons. That's because the victims there are male.

They dishonestly imply that the wage gap is attributable to discrimination when, the reality is, discrimination accounts for very little of the gap (to the point that if the gap were caused only by discrimination, few people would even notice the gap, and no one would think its serious).

They deny that women commit domestic violence when the facts are overwhelming that they do.

They don't really care about any negative impacts on males: e.g., the education crisis for boys and young men; the so-called mancession; the fact that men lead women in virtually every major cause of death, from suicides to work related accidents to virtually every health problem -- and that's not even to mention the life expectancy gap; they are OK that hundreds of thousands of young men, but not young women, are classified as potential felons for failing to register for Selective Service.

And, I could go on and on and on.

The fact is, feminism does not promote gender equity. It promotes the interests of certain women. Period. There can't be any dispute about that because the points I've raised above can't plausibly be disputed.

I'm for total equality of men and women. I'm not for focusing totally on women's concerns in the interest of "payback" for some past alleged oppression (which was largely nothing more than gender roles assigned to men and women -- by women and men).

Anonymous said...

"I am a feminist" is like saying, "
I'm a used car salesman."

Nick S said...

"I can understand that some people want to hold onto the "feminist" identifier, thinking that they only subscribe to the aspirational notions expressed (e.g., gender equality, etc.)."

I have broached this topic on other threads, but I will just sum up my thoughts again.

The approach you identify is a classic 'No True Scotsman' defense. That is, people are asked to judge feminism based on some utopian theory about what it is supposed to be about, rather than how it is practiced and lived by the majority of its adherents.

This is a lame defence that any movement, ideology or organization can resort to. Some violent religious cult that drives droves of people to their deaths could say, 'oh look, we have this text here that says what we are really about love, mercy and compassion'.

Puhleasse. I do find these weasel-word defenses from feminists tiresome. One thing you notice about such women is that they tend to assume all men, including us, are stupid and can't see through this type of nonsense.

Although it is reassuring that they feel the need to defend themselves. It shows we are having an impact.

Nick S said...

"Think: "I'm a National Socialist, but I think that what they did to the Jews was just terrible! And I object to their policy of exterminating the handicapped ..." "

Well Snark, I'm an equity Nazi. That means I don't support genocide, but I believe in laws forcing Jewish financial institutions to only charge the same interest rate as gentile institutions.

It is really unfair that you lump us all in together. Come on Snark. We are all individuals. Wearing a swastika means different things to different guys. For me, it's just about pride in my heritage and having a little fun when some minority business owner gets intimidated by your presence.

But we are not all the same, Snark. And it's really unfair that you lump us all in the one basket. Not all of us were responsible for rounding up millions and slaughtering them. Indeed, I have been known to tut-tut about such things and even suggest at party meetings that maybe we went a little too far.

------------------------
PS, I must apologize to everyone here for my sick sense of humor and generally lowering the tone of the place. But goddammit, I love contemplating how witty and clever I am and feeling so smug and superior by comparison with these obtuse feminists.

Anonymous said...

Nick S, you put it all in perspective beautifully.

Social Worker said...

@Nick S.:

How dare you compare the equity seeking strivings of the women's movement to NAZI-ISM?! The most horrific...

okay, okay, I can't keep this up; I'm making myself giggle. I like your wit, Nick. Sick makes me laugh.
My "sisters" might excoriate me for this, but it's just f-in funny.

Nick S said...

Social Worker, I know they don't really do humor on feminist forums, so I was hoping you would enjoy something different. I am sorry if I caused you to have an accident.

BTW: I was hoping that if I made you laugh you might sleep with me :-)

Anonymous said...

The thing is, I didn't find it funny, so much as an apt comparison.

Nick S said...

True, but sometimes using humor is a more effective means of getting a point across than simply trying to explain it.

Social Worker said...

And it might get me to sleep with you.

Anonymous said...

On a sober note, let's not forget that the Nazis presented their anti-semitic agenda as a sort of "equity striving."

They claimed that Jews unfairly held a disproportionate number of positions in various lucrative fields, and that their goal was merely to "humble" what they referred to as an overprivileged group.

MarkyMark said...

I don't think feminism has progressed in the 17 years since Bobbitt. I would hope women wouldn't go along with this shit now.

Yeah, just keep hoping, dude. The fact that many women CHEERED Lorena Bobbitt's dastardly deed is proof positive that they hate men-end of story...

atlas said...

Great story! Wow.

ZimbaZumba said...

Re: 'A sexual assault counselor said she didn't condone the maiming but could "understand it," and "could sympathize." '

This was the same line of argument used in Canada by mainstream feminsts.

During the Bobbitt affair Judy Rebick, who was president of the National Action Committee for the Status of Woman (NAC), on CBC Radio said she understood Lorena Bobbitt's actions although not condoning them, in an upbeat jovial sort of way.

The female news reader immediately prior to this interview spontaneously and openly laughed when describing the Bobbitt affair.

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Anonymous said...

This is bullshit....you probably beat your wife too....or perhaps were rejected by plenty of women, leaving you bitter. I would have cut his dick off too...He fucked for money after the incident....you gotta be kidding me. Keep justifying how raping women is okay...

Anonymous said...

There is some truth to this article but you are also one sided and fail to mention certain facts:

- There are witnesses that John
Bobbit abused his wife

- Johns statements conflicted with known facts

- John has been accused of abusing 3 other women

None of that makes the rejoicing in castration ok but it does make your article biased