In a video message to voters for the November mid-term election, President Obama called on certain groups to help the Democratic Party in 2010, and he left out white males: "It will be up to each of you," the President said, "to make sure that the young people, African-Americans, Latinos and women, who powered our victory in 2008, stand together once again. It will be up to each of you to keep our nation moving forward."
Surprised? Go to the White House's website and click on "issues" -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues -- what do you see? There's a "women" section, but not one for men. Click on "women" -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/women -- and see what you get.
Can this mean that men, at least white men above a certain age, apparently have no issues of their own worthy of the White House's attention, even though men lead women in virtually every social pathology known to humanity? Sadly, it isn't surprising at all. It's politics. The Atlantic recently studied the Obama coalition. Among other things, it found the following: "Single women voted by better than two to one for Obama over McCain (70-29 percent). In a post-election analysis, the polling firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosser concluded: 'Barack Obama would have lost the women’s vote and the 2008 election if it were not for the contribution of the unmarried woman. All told, Obama split men 49-48 percent, but lost married women 47-50 percent. Unmarried women, however, delivered 70 percent of their vote to the Democratic candidate, up from 62 percent in 2004."
Obama's declared indifference to men is, of course, merely the latest, but among the more overt, examples of a corrosive gender divisive group identity politics that has been creeping into our culture for several decades. This mentality elevates the interests of self-anointed victim groups above the common good. Although it isn't confined to the Democratic Party, it seems most comfortable there. (And by the way, black men, too, have reason not to feel especially allied with Obama. In his famous "Father's Day" speech two years ago, primarily directed to black men, he said that too many fathers "have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.")
For a long time, Americans were proud to live in a melting pot. Each immigrant group that came to our shores was assimilated into the grand American stew, adding a new flavor with each addition. To America's great shame, one group was not permitted to join in the stew. The civil rights movement was the natural, and proper, response to a culture that hung out a sign on the American Dream that read "Blacks need not apply." Blacks, who by any measure, were oppressed and marginalized, needed to be empowered. (I will note as an aside that starting in the 1960s, well-intentioned social engineers unwittingly helped turn the inner city into a cistern of dependency and hopelessness by, among other things, paying women to kick fathers out of the house -- remember Aid to Families with Dependent Children's old "Man out of the house" rule? The result? In 1960, 22 percent of children in the inner city were born into fatherless homes; today, that number is 70 percent. What happened? Did the men develop a "deadbeat" gene in that time? Of course not. But know this: there was an unmistakable correlation between the absence of dads and the rise of crime, drug use, early pregnancy, poor educational performance, abject poverty, and pretty much every other bad thing. By any measure, the "War on Poverty" has been a failure, and much of it has to do with the alienation of men.)
But by the late 60s, something other-worldly occurred. Other groups decided that they, too, wanted to stake a claim to the victimhood that uniquely marked the black experience, even though they were neither black nor victims. Most notably, feminists balked at the gender roles that women, mostly, have assigned to women and men since the beginning of time. Feminism, deigning to speak for all women even though few women deigned to identify with it, arrogated unto itself the right to construct a self-schema for all women that insisted their entire gender was marginalized and oppressed by the dominant culture, which they called "patriarchy," a code word for "anything with a penis." Extreme feminists rejected as "misogyny" even the suggestion that such a characterization was too all-sweeping, all too lacking in nuance, all too simplistic to the point of childishness. And progressive, guilt-ridden white men, told they could not possibly understand women's experience, bought into it. So when it came to gender, the American ideal of equal opportunity was scrapped in favor of equal outcomes, but only when skewing the outcomes favors women.
When the dust had lifted the new gender landscape revealed itself: the group that controls most of America's wealth, that controls the ballot box, that is awarded the vast majority of college degrees, that trumps men in virtually every measure of educational achievement, that is assured equal opportunity in every sphere of American life and is provided financial assistance in many simply because of its gender, that maintains a death grip on control of the domestic sphere, including children and family law courts, that earns more than its same age male peers in large urban areas until its members drop out and have children, and that lives significantly longer than men -- that group -- insists it is marginalized, oppressed, and not regarded as equal human beings. It supports this insistence with vapid epiphanies like the gender wage gap (even though it has been fairly established that the gap is not due to discrimination); with mantras like "women do more housework" (even though men work more outside the home to even things out) and "men monopolize positions of power" (which is largely due to choices women make, and not mentioned is that men also make up the vast majority of citizens at the bottom of society, living on the streets -- but that couldn't possibly be a gender issue, right?).
They thought they could somehow empower people who didn't need empowering by declaring them powerless. But the "equality" manufactured by insisting that women are powerless -- by mandating equal outcomes at the expense of equal opportunity, by insisting that young women can get drunk and engage in sex play but still have no free moral agency, by denigrating the other group as oppressors -- is the cubic zirconia of equality, a sham, a garden variety hoax. The more we "empower" women by heaping artificial advantages and privileges on them and by excusing them from accountability for their actions, the more we reinforce the notion that women need special treatment because women really aren't equal. The more that women act like victims, the more they become victims.
Studies on diversity training show that it is ineffective at getting companies to hire and promote women and minorities. Worse: ". . . those that were mandatory or discussed lawsuits - the vast majority of the programs the researchers examined - slightly reduced the number of women and minorities in management."
Why? "Required training and legalistic training both make people resentful, the authors suggest, and likely to rebel against what they’ve heard."
Instead of a melting pot, we have a victim group mentality. Instead of assimilation, we have gender division. Instead of equal opportunity, we have equal outcomes.
All of this is common sense. When the coach lets his son play ahead of kids more deserving, the other kids resent the coach's son and will never accept him.
But, you see, feminism doesn't really care if the women it "empowers" will ever be accepted. Their plan all along has been to institutionalize victimization, and they've done a damn good job of it.
The only way to empower people is to treat them like everyone else. The only way to empower women is to treat them like men -- as responsible adults endowed with equal opportunities and the full capacity to live with the consequences of the decisions they make.
I've used this analogy before: gender relations in the 21st Century resemble my local golf course where the women's tee box is a lot closer to the hole than the men's. I stumbled across a report of a study that led me to conclude that the women's tee isn't just a metaphor, it actually highlights the very truths I'm trying to get across. "On average, women's tee boxes are about 50 yards closer to the hole than men's. The greater the distance between tee boxes, the study finds, the fewer women will there be in management and marketing in that geographic locale and the less money will those women make."
Why is this? For one, the physical separation doesn't allow women to network. But just as important: "Greater distances . . . 'may portray a negative belief about the golfing abilities of women -- and perhaps by extension negative beliefs about other abilities. Significant differences in tee placements between men and women may reinforce biases against women, not just in physical terms but also intellectual terms.'"
In short, the bigger the "victim" sign a woman wears around her neck, the more special advantages heaped upon her just because she's a woman, the less chance that she will be accepted as an equal. The less chance she will . . . assimilate.
That melting pot doesn't sound like such a bad idea, does it?
If women want true equality and not just the pretense of it, they need to line up with the guys at the men's tee, join in the sometimes raunchy language without being "offended" or filing a discrimination suit, and take their best swings. On average, they probably won't hit it as far as the guys, but you know what? They'll be "one of the boys." And they might just end up running the company someday without people resenting them.
That's if they want real equality and not just the pretense of it. Lots of women want the former; most women's groups are content with the latter.
Thursday, April 29, 2010
The politics of victimization doesn't work: we can't empower our daughters by insisting they are powerless
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83 comments:
Nice job, guys.
This one didn't vote for him!
CBGirl
Modern, liberal, second-wave, gender, or what ever you want to call it, feminism is not the result of women having less privilege. It is the result of women having too much privilege. They are drunk with privilege. The truly oppressed do not have the luxury to indulge in imaginary problems. Those facing real problems, cannot afford to be childish, irrational, or ignore the facts, in pursuing real solutions to those problems. Yet, this is exactly what we have repeatedly seen from modern feminism -- the pursuit of policy based on fiction, positions based on ideology rather than reality.
Privilege is like booze.
most won't abuse it, some will.
abuse is only addressed by legal restrictions and legal sanctions on all.
I, in the UK, cannot legally own a gun, because of the abuses of the minority.
it is only fair that the same metric is applied to female privilege...
or...
to put it another way to USAians...
You have SOCIALISED the cost of suffrage...
(yeah, we have too)
IT is claimed that women had " suffrage ". Men have always had sufferage. White hetrosexual males are the only human beings that do not have any special treatments, biases, privileges, rights, benefits or, protections of any kind.
We are endangered human beings.
"IT is claimed that women had " suffrage ". Men have always had sufferage."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suffrage
I don't think John McCain would have done anything about false rape accusers, though.
At least we didn't end up with Hillary Clinton.
"White hetrosexual males are the only human beings that do not have any special treatments, biases, privileges, rights, benefits or, protections of any kind"
That's because you abused your white heterosexual male status.
This essay was a good exploration of the problem of identity politics -- which cuts both ways, you know: racial divisions hinder poor Americans from identifying as a class, for example.
Black men have been shackled to white women for decades in this country, even though their interests have little in common. The results are clear: just look at all of the black men who are in prison, largely because they lacked the benefit of growing up in patriarchal/traditional households, and also because they lack the civil liberties that they are entitled to.
The poorer you are, the more important your rights because, because in our system you get the justice you can afford.
Anonymous - "That's because you abused your white heterosexual male status."
Unless you've posted this as just some snarky comment, then, please, do explain. What did I do, and when did I do it, that has caused me to be ineligible? How did I abuse my white heterosexual male status?
Let me guess, what you're really saying is that because some white men, at some point in time, did somethings wrong, now all white men are held accountable for their actions? And, it's okay by you if real people living today, who've done nothing wrong themselves, are penalized for something someone else might have done many years ago?
Of course, that's what the notion of "rectifying historical injustices" always really comes down to - punishing an innocent person as a proxy for someone else's misdeeds. Because, of course, as all dipsh*t's and feminists know, "two wrongs make a right".
Any number of FRA apologist feminists have so much as said so - It's reasonable that innocent men suffer and be put in prison falsely, because somewhere, sometime, some other man got away with rape. Right?
"That's because you abused your white heterosexual male status."
This is what hate looks like, everyone.
"How did I abuse my white heterosexual male status?"
Right, sl. The persons who practice group identity politics not only believe themselves to be "victims" merely for having been born into a certain group, but they believe that persons born into supposedly non-victim groups are "oppressors."
In days long gone, we had a word for negatively stereotyping individuals based on the acts of some members of a group: bigotry. Funny how that doesn't apply to white males.
~~
"That's because you abused your white heterosexual male status."
Yes, we're all very sorry about that whole science thing. So as a heterosexual white male, I would like to take this opportunity to officially apologize for modern medicine, indoor plumbing, glass windows, radio, television, telephones, trains, planes, automobiles, and everything and anything that either lights up or has more than three moving parts, as well as express my deepest condolences for having the computer you used to make your jackass comment, the network it is on, the electricity it used, and the alphabet in which you wrote it.
"Right, sl. The persons who practice group identity politics not only believe themselves to be "victims" merely for having been born into a certain group, but they believe that persons born into supposedly non-victim groups are "oppressors.""
Hahaha. Indeed.
Guys, the Anonymous commenter who wrote that is PAW - she was born as a woman! I agree it's a rather pitiable and unfortunate state of affairs ... we should feel sorry for her because of things that happened to some other women 5000 years ago ... :'(
And, as a white male responsible for what all white males have done, I would like to apologize for writing Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and "Hamlet." And the whole moon landing thing.
Oh, and for curing polio.
Ooh, ooh, let me have a go ...
I'm sorry that women live longer on average than men thanks to medical breakthroughs made exclusively by men.
Really, I'm honestly very sorry about this one.
Really.
If I could take anything back, it would be this ... :(
And by the way, feminism didn't empower women. The washing machine did.
Anon,
And the pill ... invented by men ...
"And by the way, feminism didn't empower women. The washing machine did."
Idle hands are the devil's playground.
Right; they waited until home appliances were invented (mostly by men), and THEN complained about the housework. There is a sort of unspoken feminist myth that bra-burners liberated women from housework, and that if it wasn't for modern feminism women would still be ironing shirts and pulling roasts out of the ice box. It's incredibly silly.
About the race issues -- this is going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks, because men are very divided by race, far more so than women, and it's hard to close the gap. A lot of white men vote for Tough! As!! Hell!!! crime laws because they want to get back at black men, and a lot of black men think of white men as the devil. And yes, there was a horrible history of slavery in this country, with lingering effects on social and economic status.
But every injustice that happens to a white man happens to a black man twice, and you can't build a promising future for black men in this country by, for example, supporting the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax -- and sadly, some black men did just that. We need a legal system that will apply an appropriate level of skepticism to every accusation, regardless of skin color or whether or not the defendent can afford a fancy team of lawyers.
I don't see this as being primarily the fault of either white men or black men (or immigrants, for that matter). Men continue to allow themselves to be divided, and ALL men are going to have to make some sacrifices if we are going to advance men as a social class.
You males pick apart everything. Let me put it another way: Because your predecessors abused their power of control over women, their successors are paying the consequences ----------- false accusations comes to mind. Who said life is *fair*?
And here is the point made earlier: any comparison between the hardships that white women faced in the nineteenth century and the plight of African-American slaves is sickening and ridiculous. But I have seen feminists make that comparison!
gg is that you?
You males pick apart everything. Let me put it another way: Because your predecessors abused their power of control over women, their successors are paying the consequences ----------- false accusations comes to mind. Who said life is *fair*?
****
Oh, so you think that false rape accusations are a deserved revenge because your great-great-great-grandmother had to do too much laundry? Incredible.
Alrighty then, let's think this through: if false accusations are revenge for the past and life just plain *isn't fair*, then why the hell shouldn't we impose an equally unjust society on your granddaughters? Feminism won't always be the prevailing meme in this society, you know.
Is that okay, then? Shall future patriarchies avenge the sins of the present?
Anyone who comes here and explicitly justifies false allegations is clearly going to get banned and have their posts deleted, so maybe it's best to ignore it when it happens.
Archivists, if you want to give me moderation power here, so I can deal with this kind of thing when you're not around, feel free ... different time zones and such, so I'm often on here when you guys aren't, I think.
"Is that okay, then? Shall future patriarchies avenge the sins of the present?"
OK, that's good to go...
next please...
And yeah, anyone whose moral basis begins with "life isn't fair" and we shouldn't try to make it so, has not a leg to stand on against rape.
Got raped? Well, life isn't fair. You deserve no compensation or even sympathy for it.
In fact, one could say that, since so many women commit false accusations today, their 'successors' (future generations of women) should quite rightly 'pay the price' by being raped, and receiving no compensation, recognition or attention for it.
There you go. That's your worldview, in a nutshell; not mine.
The capacity for picking statements apart to find inconsistencies is a virtue, by the way; not that I expect you to grasp this, or the reasons for it.
Snark: I don't think this one should be banned. Let her come in here and support false accusations, without even pretending to believe in "equality."
When a feminist comes in here and makes our points for us better than we ever could ourselves, I say let them continue! It really is just a lot of hatred and jealousy, based on a fairy tale vision of past injustices.
We should always remember what we're dealing with: amoral trash, like this anonymous poster who comes right out and supports false rape accusations.
On the other hand, we stand for good, solid values like truth and individual rights and family and liberty.
Anon, I am happy to let feminists continue to shove their own feet down their throats.
My concern is for falsely accused men, who come here for support, as it's pretty much the only site on the internet for this purpose. I do not want anything here that is intended to upset those already going through hell.
And it got me thinking - those women who get so angry about this site, may well be false accusers themselves.
I mean, there are plenty of women who support FRS, and now there is even one who has joined the writing team. Obviously these women do not feel that it is 'misogynistic'.
I wonder if those who get so worked up over this site, stand to lose a lot if we succeed in changing the discourse - it might expose them for who they are, and they might end up facing serious punishment for what they have done.
I wonder, indeed, if the inflammatory Anonymous commenter is in need of a trip to the big house. A couple of women just got sentenced to 11 and 19 months for a false accusation. I wonder if she is afraid of the same thing?
Revenge, my ass. It's a fact that when you oppress people, they retaliate.
My son is learning at a young age that women are not toys to be discarded.
Especially considering that actual prison sentences for false accusers were basically unheard of in recent history, and are now becoming more common - the very presence of this site is one indicator of the changing consciousness.
I wonder, if those women who are so 'offended' by what we are doing here, are panicking that they might get found out yet. And if we succeed in what we are trying to do ... that they may end up on the sex offender's register for life, after a nice long stretch in prison.
"My son is learning at a young age that women are not toys to be discarded."
What about your daughter? Is she learning that men are toys to be chucked into prison at her whim?
Oppression, my ass. Women have never been oppressed. You have nothing to retaliate against. Feminists are spoiled children, angry at not always getting their own way, angry at having to actually work their way through life, angry at that guy not calling back because you were lousy in bed. And so on. Angry little girls.
My son is learning at a young age that women are not toys to be discarded.
****
So you want him to grow up to stay with a woman, even if she's a bitch who walks all over him? You're a horrible mother.
Even by American single mom standards -- you're vile. Your son is going to grow up to hate women. That's what happens when you deprive a boy of his father.
And isn't it disgusting the way feminists have more sympathy with the daughters of plantation owners than with their slaves? How pathetic.
A bunch of pampered, neurotic losers having an eternal hissy fit. You deserve the misery you inflict on yourselves.
that women are not toys to be discarded.
***
And that says it all, doesn't it? Some man got sick of this lady's crap and took a walk. Now she supports false rape accusations; it makes her feel better to get back at men for the horrible sin of a guy dumping her.
As usual, women like her confuse their petty hurts with serious injustices.
Anonymous - "My son is learning at a young age that women are not toys to be discarded."
So?
The vast, vast majority of boys in the Anglo-sphere are raised that way. Hell, most are taught to put women on pedestals.
The guys who come to dislike women are those who've been "jerked" around enough by women that they stop thinking of women as their betters, and then take a good hard look at what modern liberated feminist women have become. Like you said, "It's a fact that when you oppress people, they retaliate."
Sadly, some men do retaliate against women (collectively) for the harms and wrongs done to them by select women.
Perhaps it's time for mothers to also teach their daughter to respect men and boys, and not view them as lesser, sub-human garbage to be used and abused, then kicked to the curb.
[you see, that works both ways:)]
When you oppress people they don't retaliate. They can't.
But sometimes when you try to help people they bite your hand off at the wrist. White women in this country have certainly abused what they've been given.
You know, this really sucks. Because I'm tired of being right all the time.
Please feminists, send some chicks in here who can actually challenge what we think about you, false accusations, liars, the degradation of society and our loss of freedoms, etc.
I hate it when womyn come in here and confirm all of our worst fears about ya'll. I would so love to be wrong, so please at least pretend that you really are the good guys and we're just a bunch of bitter, misguided fools.
I would so love to be wrong!
"Who said life is *fair*?"
Same goes for rape.
By speaking from the "gender feminist construct", Obama can further neglect the "matriarchal underclass" of "male laboreres" who are too un-educated to stand up for themselves.
And when your husband is falsely accused of rape by some bitch, you'll tell him to shut up and take it because he's paying for historic injustices?
"About the race issues -- this is going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks, because men are very divided by race, far more so than women"
I do not think that is true at all. In my experience white women are generally more racist than white men.
Which goes to an earlier point, if feminism is the result of oppression, why are the vast majority of feminists white and of upward economic class?
Chef Snark, I've just sent you an invitation to be a moderator.
Readers are encouraged to read our comment policy. Talking about what "males" did to women is offensive to fair minded people.
The modern "gender feminist construct" is the paradigm used to keep the "gender feminists" in power, and its the same paradigm that "breaks all other patriarchies", in order to manufacture legions of uneducated easilly exploited young males.
This would seem silly if it were not the truth.
Exactly. Feminism is an upper middle-class New York white woman thing, so it's no wonder that minorities in the Democratic Party end up at the back of the line. What do they expect?
I'm starting to suspect that our last poster actually has a racial hang-up, and incorrectly views false rape accusations as revenge against white men, and not men in general.
Which is crazy, but that seems to be the attitude.
An example of hate speech: "You males pick apart everything. Let me put it another way: Because your predecessors abused their power of control over women, their successors are paying the consequences ----------- false accusations comes to mind. Who said life is *fair*?"
We won't tolerate this. I didn't see it before a lot of other people commented, but this is beyond the bounds of decency.
Archivist: this is your blog, of course -- but I've enjoyed this conversation. I think it's very revealing, although her statements are obviously very offensive.
On this particular occasion my personal preference would have been to let it go, but that is just my personal preference. Your rules prevail, of course.
"Chef Snark, I've just sent you an invitation to be a moderator."
Well, let's all hope he uses it responsibly, and not just when someone argues with him.
I want everyone to read this, from a famous article that is frequently misquoted. The actual paragraph is even more chilling than it's misquote -- and it reminds me of that troll who used hate words:
"Catherine Comins, assistant dean of student life at Vassar, also sees some value in this loose use of 'rape.' She says angry victims of various forms of sexual intimidation cry rape to regain their sense of power. 'To use the word carefully would be to be careful for the sake of the violator, and the survivors don't care a hoot about him.' Comins argues that men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. 'They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions.'"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101910603-157165,00.html#ixzz0mWn194nt
I find it fascinating the way some people think that patriarchy and racism and capitalism are all the same thing, wrapped tightly together in one white male package.
Not at all true. Patriarchy and racism are not at all the same thing, and gender issues are extremely different than race issues.
One of the main factors holding back minorities today is a lack of patriarchal values and structure, quite frankly.
Chef Snark - "I wonder, if those women who are so 'offended' by what we are doing here, are panicking that they might get found out yet."
After dealing with Georgia Girl for some time (here, and before that, at Glenn Sacks blog), I came to think that (radical as it sounds, and admittedly without much to back it up) that some woman understand that the threat of false accusation (violence or rape) are a powerful weapon women hold over men. But, like any other weapon, it's power as a threat is only maintained by periodically demonstrating it's capability.
This is just my speculation, but, I believe that there are some women who wish to see false allegations made if only as a reminder to other men (not themselves targeted) of the awesome power a woman DOES have.
I also believe that they are far less concerned whether or not the targeted men end up in prison, but rather that the world see just how difficult a false allegation can make their lives. This gives other women substantial power to wield via the threat that they might do the same to a man.
If I'm correct, then their angst with this site, and efforts to expose FRA's and deter false accusers, comes from their recognition that if FRA's are more effectively dealt with, then women might be less inclined to use them; with the net result being that the threat implied in them will also be diminished - reducing the power of women who would prefer to be able to misuse and abuse it.
This is, of course, just a theory. I brought it up some time back on this forum, and while I have nothing with which to prove it, I also don't see anything that disproves it.
I mentioned GG as she was the one who first got me thinking that there just might be such a line of though at work amongst certain women - she seemed to fit the bill. A rape victim, angry at her lack of power long after the fact, a person who wholly acknowledged FRA's and even the harm they do, yet who never really seemed to be for any reform tot the status quo which would reduce them (she once stated that men should not try to do anything about FRA's until such time as all rape against women was eliminated - or, in other terms, never).
She also seemed unduly agitated every time the subject of the Duke FRA hoax came up, imploring that it was time to forget about that incident and "move on". yet, as we all know, that is a key example to the world of the true nature of FRA's and the women who would make them. Forget Duke, and the scourge of FRA's can continue with reduced scrutiny - just what GG seemed to want to happen. Am I right? You still lurking out there GG?
Invitation accepted!
Thanks, Archivist ... I can't wait to get MODERATING some nasty femmorhoids!
I like to think of myself as a doctor, curing what ails us all!
Perhaps I need to hang up my chef's hat and put on my lab coat ... Dr Snark ... I like the sound of that!
Anon ... I'm not going to delete comments I disagree with.
I apply stricter rules at my blog, although I do allow disagreements there, where they are civil.
Here, I shall ONLY moderate the comments of feminists - and then, only when they appear to be supporting false rape accusations, or belittling actual victims.
Is that okay with everyone? Good.
I'm not sure she would like the answers she got in response to those questions! That comes from a sick mind.
Anon at 5:37: I respect your comment. Let me just say that my one concern is that we have a lot of bruised people who read this blog. I am going to reveal something some of your might not know: we've heard from more than one person who've told us our blog was important in their decision not to take their own lives. That's an awful responsibility for one little blog. So we need to walk a fine line and be respectful of the survivors.
I will also tell you that so long as we have so many able defenders, I am not as concerned about the comments. It is very good to see so many people destroy her feeble arguments.
P.S. I previously asked the good Chef if he'd join our team, so this wasn't something I've done lightly.
I just wish I could understand how a woman like her -- who claims to have a son and a wonderful (her word) husband, who is a great role-model for him -- could support false rape accusations so openly, and rationalize it as revenge for historical oppression.
Does she want her husband to be the victim of a false accusation? That's just amazing to me. I understand that coming from a feminist neurotic but not from a housewife. You love your husband and son but don't want them to have any rights? Does not compute.
And why did she think that we hate happy families? (She said this in a deleted comment.)
lol! I wouldn't have asked so flippantly, had you not asked me prior.
sl, contrast the women you mention with actual rape survivors -- they want no connection with the false accusers.
"And why did she think that we hate happy families? (She said this in a deleted comment.)"
She is
a) nuts,
b) doesn't understand the issue, or
c) both.
It is unfortunate that the Socratic method does not work on her kind. You can prove that she does not have the claim to knowledge or expertise that she purports to, and she will simply rehash what she already said ... and throw in a non-sequitir.
Male privilege is a childish myth, concocted by angry people who aren't males to justify their own inferiorities.
The "women as victim" construct, which has been asurped by the new "gender feminist" construct, will go down in history as the main paradigm construct that is used in some first world countries to in effect "Manufacture a underclass" of uneducated laborers.
Anonymous - "My last comment was in response to the anon, who now claims to have a wonderful husband who sets a good example for her son.
What I'm trying to understand is why such a woman would support false rape accusations... "
The poster in question sounds a lot like Jeana (for those who remember her.
At one point, knowing that she had a son, when the topic of FRA's was being discussed at Glenn Sacks' blog (if memory serves, it was on the topic of teaching young women what "consent" means, posted by one Pierce Harlan), I posited the question to her as to how she might feel if her son was to one day be so accused by a girl (or woman).
Her response took me completely off guard. With seemly no hesitation she stated that if her son was accused, she'd assume he did wrong, and that she'd side with his accuser.
I had expected her to carefully consider her position, but instead she held firm to her gender-feminist ideals, and demonstrated a willingness to throw her own son under the bus.
It was then that it dawned on me that for some women, estrogen runs thicker than blood.
I wonder from reading these feminist comments, exactly how could men oppress women without oppressing themselves? Unlike race, class, or religion, people cannot be easily divided by sex. How could men oppress women without oppressing their own wives, daughters, etc? The same applies to what we are seeing now. Why can't feminists see that any vindictive retaliatory injustice is going to effect their sons, brothers, and so on?
The other issue is that sex is not hereditary. If there is any argument that a person of African-American descent living today might have inherited the results of past oppression, it's only because black parents have black children. But a woman's ancestry is equally male and female. If anything is passed down as the result of past oppression, a man would suffer the alleged oppression of his grandmothers as much as his sister.
That's a damned good point! Women can't claim to have inherited historic injustice because they are descended from those who supposedly inflicted it.
You know, now that I think of it, that did sound like Jeanna.
The same old turds, different toilet! Just the other day it was GG, pretending to be Rose-something-or-other.
I am going to reveal something some of your might not know: we've heard from more than one person who've told us our blog was important in their decision not to take their own lives. That's an awful responsibility for one little blog. So we need to walk a fine line and be respectful of the survivors.
I am one and I am just the wife of a falsely accused man.
that some woman understand that the threat of false accusation (violence or rape) are a powerful weapon women hold over men. But, like any other weapon, it's power as a threat is only maintained by periodically demonstrating it's capability.
Yes, I agree. My husband's accuser was blackmailing him threatening that she was going to call me and tell me of his infidelity. He never thought she would stoop and go to the police.
She must have got wind that I was a good person and probably would forgive him (which I have) and decided on the false accusation since she had tried it before. She was better at it this time though.. but has made quite a few mistakes. We will have the last laugh bitch!
sl, contrast the women you mention with actual rape survivors -- they want no connection with the false accusers
A dear friend of mine was raped years ago, "Pulled in the bushes and raped by a stranger" kind of rape. She is livid about what has happened to my husband and is very supportive. She is sane/intelligent enough to know how these FRA's affect true rape vicims. Maybe this is why she has been so supportive to us.
CBGirl
Pierce,
My opinon is to let the idiot feminist spew their venom. It only makes them look like the true snakes they are.
CBGirl
OT: and here is yet another situation in which men will be vulnerable to false rape accusations: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/pub-navy-combats-critics-fight-let-women-submarines/?test=faces
Not even serving on a submarine is safe any more.
@ slwerner and others.
I, as you know, am an FRA, and as you may also have guessed, my FRA (confusing, to meanings for the same acronym) was well known to be, having been in a long relationship with her.
take note.
claims of being happily married, claims of having children, claims of having been raped, in fact, not just any claim, but EVERY claim, is, to say the least, suspect.
If I were to say that if my FRA told me the sky was blue, I would look up and check, you may laugh, and you would miss the point.
I have also in the past recommended the "Shrink for Men" blog, which is an excellent resource for men associated with women afflicted with a Cluster B Personality Disorder, such as BPD, NPD, etc. (the host is a female shrink btw)
You'll get the same advice there, if they tell you the sky is blue, look up, and check.
Some 1% of the male population are afflicted to some degree with a Cluster B Personality Disorder.
Some 6% of the female population are afflicted with a Cluster B Personality Disorder.
My FRA is a classic NPD.
Now, shades of Woody Allen in the Sleeper.
What is ALL THE CRAZY BITCHES (to quote Dr Tara) we are dealing with here are in the aforementioned 6%???
Think on that, long and hard...
If a fucking fruitcake tells you the sky is blue, you check...
AFOR, I found this summary. I think my husband's FRA must 'suffer' from this too.
http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/cluster_b_personality_disorders
Antisocial Personality Disorder
APD is characterized by lack of empathy or conscience, a difficulty controlling impulses and manipulative behaviors. This disorder is sometimes also referred to as psychopathy or sociopathy, however, Antisocial Personality Disorder is the clinical terminology used for diagnosis (APA 2000).
The term antisocial is commonly misunderstood as referring to someone who has poor social skills, but usually the opposite is true. Psychopaths can be charming, and are adept at focusing their cold, calculating efforts solely on self-gratification, typically at the expense of others (Hare 1999, Black 1999).
Borderline Personality Disorder
According to the DSM-TR-IV, psychology's diagnostic "bible," BPD interferes with an individual's ability to regulate emotion. The characteristic emotional instability results in dramatic and abrupt shifts in mood, impulsivity, poor self-image and tumultuous interpersonal relationships. People with this disorder are prone to unpredictable outbursts of anger, which sometimes manifests in self-injurious behavior. Borderlines are highly sensitive to rejection, and fear of abandonment may result in frantic efforts to avoid being left alone, such a suicide threats and attempts (Friedham 2004, Oldham 2004).
Histrionic Personality Disorder
To be histrionic is to behave melodramatically—over the top. People with the psychological disorder HPD, have a personality based on histrionic behavior; constantly displaying an excessive level of emotionality.
Histrionics crave the limelight and constantly seek attention and approval. They tend to dominate conversations using grandiose language and frequent interruptions. Those with HPD can be manipulative—negative attention being better than no attention at all (Dobbert 2007, Horowitz 2001).
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
NPD is typified by grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy. Narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity, but the pathologically narcissistic tend to be extremely self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ perspectives, insensitive to others’ needs and indifferent to the effect of their own egocentric behavior.
It is not uncommon for persons with this disorder to frequently compare themselves to the accomplished, well-known and well-to-do. They feel entitled to great praise, attention, and deferential treatment by others. Those with NPD crave the limelight and are quick to abandon situations in which they are not the center of attention. Defects of empathy may cause narcissists to misperceive other people's speech and actions, causing them to believe that they are well-liked and respected despite a history of negative personal interactions (Kernberg 2003, 2004, APA 2000).
Read more at Suite101: Cluster B Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic and Narcissistic PD http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/cluster_b_personality_disorders#ixzz0mX5UZHqw
CBGirl
I just wanted to say THANKS
To Pierce, Steve, Chef Snark , Slwerner , CBgirl and all the others that make this blog so great!
CBGirl, really, I would recommend EVERYONE involved the the subject of FRA go over and read EXTENSIVELY
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/a-shrink-for-men-index/
lol
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/crazy-bitch-quiz/
in particular was what hooked me
i could only answer NO to 2 of them, being able to answer YES to 2 or more means she is prolly a crazy bitch
AFOR
I spent about an hour reading including comments. All I can say is that I am sorry.
It reminds me of living with an alcoholic which is a horrible life to live. My heart goes out to anyone who has to deal with this.
A man demasulinated is no way to live. A man feels responsible for the happiness of his wife, at least mine have. It sounds like they may as well cut off their balls.
I can feel how those men feel AFOR. I hope you have shared some of your story there to warn these men of what could happen to them if they stay.
I'd be willing to bet that most of FRA's ARE from women who have Borderline Personality Disorder.
I don't know my husband's accuser, never met her but I will definately show him this and see what he says.
Best of luck, you are always in my thoughts..
hugs
CBGirl
They tend to dominate conversations using grandiose language and frequent interruptions. Those with HPD can be manipulative—negative attention being better than no attention at all (Dobbert 2007, Horowitz 2001).
****
Anybody remember Michael Jackson's (last) false accuser's mother on the witness stand? She seemed to fit this discription. Her bizarre testimony was one of the reasons the gloved one was acquitted.
I have also in the past recommended the "Shrink for Men" blog, which is an excellent resource for men associated with women afflicted with a Cluster B Personality Disorder, such as BPD, NPD, etc. (the host is a female shrink btw)
You'll get the same advice there, if they tell you the sky is blue, look up, and check.
Some 1% of the male population are afflicted to some degree with a Cluster B Personality Disorder.
Some 6% of the female population are afflicted with a Cluster B Personality Disorder.
***
Very interesting! So 6% of the female population may be potential false rape accusers, and this type of personality disorder is six times more common in women.
This might explain a great deal!
"Very interesting! So 6% of the female population may be potential false rape accusers, and this type of personality disorder is six times more common in women.
This might explain a great deal!"
The feminists are trying to get the name changed from borderline personality disorder to "emotional regulation disorder" -- Lipstick for the pig.
http://www.anythingtostopthepain.com/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd-erd/
If you are interested in the medical aspects of Borderline Personality Disorder, Randy Sansone, M.D. is an expert:
http://www.med.wright.edu/psych/res/publications.html
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articlerender.cgi?artid=1798350
"Given the empirically confirmed higher rate of somatic symptoms that are encountered in patients with BPD, one would expect this phenomenon to be reflected in higher rates of healthcare utilization. Indeed, compared to non-BPD patients, we have empirically confirmed significantly greater healthcare utilization in medical settings by patients with BPD.25,26 In one study of 194 female family medicine outpatients, we found that scores on the measure for BPD were significantly related to the number of facility contacts (i.e., physician visits and telephone calls) as well as the number of prescriptions.25 In a second study, we retrospectively examined the healthcare utilization patterns of 116 female family medicine patients during the preceding year.26 The investigator who was assigned to review the medical records was blind to participants’ Axis II status. As predicted, compared with non-BPD participants, those with BPD had a significantly greater number of office visits and ongoing prescriptions."
Borderlines have lots of somatic complaints (those that have no medical explanation. They generally consist of gastrointestinal problems, constipation, heartburn, nausea, vomiting, colitis, migraines, headaches, back aches, and skin disorders.)
So, in addition to the DSM-IV criteria, look for other medical diagnoses such as fibromyalgia or Munchausen's Syndrome. Women with these diagnoses are much more likely to be false rape accusers.
http://www.psychforums.com/histrionic-personality/topic46860.html
http://www.actabiomedica.it/data/2007/2_2007/fietta.pdf
@Anonymous 6:45 AM
http://www.bonnebridges.com/print/articles_do_you_know_a_BPD_2print.htm
"They tend to dominate conversations using grandiose language and frequent interruptions. Those with HPD can be manipulative—negative attention being better than no attention at all (Dobbert 2007, Horowitz 2001)."
This describes my brother's ex very well. I don't know about any rape claims (though it wouldn't surprise me), but was told of a story that as a teenager she accused her father of abuse, and it wasn't until he'd been in the cells down the local police station for a few hours that she recanted. This was in the late 80s when there was mass hysteria over child abuse after the launch of Childline and any accusation had to be taken seriously. She was then "bulemic", though she wasn't really (Munchausen's). Thesedays she just has M.E.
All this makes me think of Simon Baron Cohen's suggestion that autism is essentially extreme maleness... ie male (systemising) brains versus female (emotional) brains. His suggestion is that most men are sytemisers, with smaller percentages being either "balanced" or emotional, and the reverse is the case for women. I've long wondered that BPD is essentially extreme femaleness... but more to the point: autism is regarded as a spectrum, upon which we all lie. If you consider the spectrum as a range between 0-100 then "normal" people exist mostly in the lower third, to varying degrees, Aspergers Syndrome types in the middle third, low-functioning autistics in the higher end. More males are autistic than females, on the order of one in four (dontcha love the one in four stat?), so more males are on the high end of the autistic (male) spectrum, and more females on the lower end. I would suggest a similar emotional spectrum, which would show the opposite... as pointed out above... some 1% of BPD are male, 6% female.
(Incidentally, another 1 in 4 stat I came across some time ago, from a vegetarian website, which stated that a mere 25% of vegeterians are male... and how "we" should try and convert more...)
3 things come to mind:
1) BPD is a recognised neurological disorder, and women who falsely claim rape under such conditions should be "helped", though some effort should be made to recognise them.
2) If an emotional spectrum, on the lines I suggest is applicable, then there is a middle third of women who aren't BGPD per se, but verge on the dangerous... these are the ones who jump into taxi cabs and try to get a free ride. There isnt a book big enough to throw at them.
3) If Cohen is right.. that, say, 20% of women have "systemising" brains... ie, they like to put people into groups, organise, systemise... man, they sound like just about every single feminist thinker that ever was.
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