Here is a lengthy piece on the evidence from the Roethlisberger investigation. For purposes of our blog, here are the highlights:
". . . one person in Mr. Roethlisberger's entourage, Mr. [Willie] Colon, told police that the accuser repeatedly tried to get the quarterback's attention at a bar earlier in the evening, pinched Mr. Roethlisberger and, along with others in her party, wore a sexually suggestive nametag. Mr. Colon said the woman asked him if he knew what her 'DTF' nametag meant. She said it was a crude acronym for wanting to have sex." (It is crude slang for "down to f*ck." Nice girl. Do you think her parents knew she wore such a nametag?)
In addition: Sgt. Jerry Blash of the local police force reportedly told an off-duty police officer with Roethlisberger: "Hey, I need to talk to you guys. We have a problem. This drunken bitch, drunk off her ass, is accusing Ben of rape. This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's[bull] but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making [stuff] up." Later, after the alleged incident, Sgt. Blash said, "The way she says it happened, there is no way." Roethlisberger's off-duty state trooper friend noted that "Sgt. Blash said the accuser had already changed her story several times."
(Update: Sgt. Blash has resigned the police force: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10106/1050975-66.stm)
Mr. Bright, the local district attorney in charge of the case, said that "when the accuser first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, 'The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.' "
It really sounds like Roethlisberger is just a swell guy. He wouldn't allow any males back into the VIP area, except members of his entourage:. One of his friends, an off-duty Pennsylvania state trooper," permitted only women to enter the VIP section of the Capital City nightclub. Mr. Colon told investigators that was because of past encounters with jealous boyfriends and said his teammate's bodyguards 'found it simpler to keep them out.'"
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92 comments:
Oh, so she did false accuse him -- but the inconvenient parts didn't make it into her statement. And the officer knew it was bullshit.
Wow! And now he's resigned in disgust.
Swell system!
You know, it's sad -- because even though I'm a strong advocate for the falsely accused, throughout this thing I have tried to give her credit when I thought it was deserved.
Every time I think "she's not so bad, she's not Crystal Mangum," there is a new report proving that yes, she is Crystal Mangum.
There may be a lot of Crystal Mangum's out there, after all.
Look at what she told the cop, and also look at her first statement. Compare those two things to her later statement. Could this change be the fine hand of a Women's Studies girlfriend convincing her she was raped? I've seen that happen in my practice, by the way.
This liar belongs in jail. That cop's statement proves it.
Here I go with being a turd in the swimming pool, but I have to ask if you people REALLY believe cops never lie?
Here these off duty cops are enabling this situation to go on. The girl is obviously drunk. BB is certainly being set up for trouble, as any cop worth his salt would have recognized.
Resigned in disgust, or resigned in disgrace?
Look, I KNOW 'Big Ben' is supposed to be a hero, and all cops are our 'friends' - but the more I read about this story, the less I find 'ol Ben a sympathetic figure.
Cops are 'star fuckers' too, ya know.
Are you kidding? The more I read this story the more it looks like just another false rape accusation, like all of the others we read about.
You really think that Ben should be unilaterally judged for being a slut, while she is given a victim card for the same behavior? That's ridiculous. He is the victim here and that's all he is.
Ben comes off like a jerk here. And I'm talking chivalry or women here. The bartender said he was rude. He was urging minors to drink. He wouldn't let male fans back in the VIP area. He didn't like people taking his picture.
Get over yourself!
If I were the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd trade him. It's like if UPS has one of its drivers in uniform going around treating people badly. Ben is, in a sense, always in uniform because everyone knows who he is -- and no company wants a rep like that.
P.S. None of that changes my advocacy for his rights as someone presumptively innocent. I just don't understand the lifestyle.
well at least both should be more responsible from now on.
but he is probably a bigger false rape accusation target more then ever,i am certain that people want to destroy him more then ever now.
Wasn't he one of the cops who got his picture taken with Ben earlier that evening?
people following agendas are so noticable.They only add the pc facts
Good thing i add the natural standart which people ignore,otherwise my judgment would be corrupted.
Still both were irresponsible,so yes some punishment by the society to follow big daddy.I know they don't like individualits.
Plus being drunk and having sex is the culture of stupidity,reason that you can be drunk and still realize what happens and then freely change words,she wasn't knock out drunk.
Saying "Ben Roethlisberger is stupid" is saying, "When men are falsely accused of rape, they were asking for it." The misandrist media plays this game; we should not.
What we are seeing is gender role-reversal: now it's okay for women to be whores, but men have to watch out, and if they are falsely accused, too bad.
If I were the Pittsburgh Steelers, I'd trade him. It's like if UPS has one of its drivers in uniform going around treating people badly.
***
Archivist: I love you man, but I have to disagree with this one. Trading him would send the wrong message about false rape accusations, in my opinion. We can't allow the innocent to be stigmatized.
I'm NOT implying by this that aren't a passionate supporter of the falsely accused, by the way.
"Trading him would send the wrong message about false rape accusations, in my opinion. We can't allow the innocent to be stigmatized."
I think you're right, and I was wrong. I don't think this incident should be used to send a message. The reality is that this would have been a normal night out if someone hadn't convinced the "woman" to cry rape. We shouldn't make him suffer as a consequence of that.
anon 1:37
I was being sarcastic a little and wanted to point out that he doesn't deserve any punishment suspension.Society is not oppening their eyes and realizing what is happening.
I want to give our readers a heads up -- I've got one coming up in a little while that may be the most sickening false rape story I've ever reported. This is so awful it's actually got me shaken up, I'm so angry. It deals with a double standard in the law that led to a man's death.
Man, I am so-o-o sick of it.
Even worse than the one where the guy got raped for 24 hours with a broom handle because of a liar? Geez!
I'll give my stomach some time to empty before reading it.
A few things to consider here -
An off duty cop who 'protects' a man taking an obviously very drunk woman into a public restroom for sex is ...questionably unprofessional. To publicly make a statement referring to her as a 'that bitch' is again...unprofessional. At best.
I'm not feeling any "gender alliance" love here.
Ben is no school boy overcome by hormones. Blame a much less mature woman for the whole thing - it's poor innocent Ben just being "set up". Again.
I have to wonder, however, how a man with his years of public exposure - not to mention already being 'set up' once before, did'nt err on the side of caution and at least get a nice, consentual hotel room, rather than a stinking ladies bathroom. Alpha Male notwithstanding - that's just plain disgusting.
You'd have to think 'ol Big Ben is pretty pissed off at women in general right now. Falsely accused in a civil case and all. Sluts and bitches always throwing themselves at him - what's a guy to do?
No doubt he's had a few discussions with his off duty cop friends about that razor fine line between what is rape - and what is not provable or prosecutable.
But he did nothing illegal,God knows, and it's not at all his fault. Let's bear that in mind at all times. He can have any woman he wants in any bathroom he wants. Doesn't make him a bad guy.
She's a bitch, ever ready to spring a civil suit on a football star she unexpectedly encountered. All 20 year old college sluts and bitches have that in the back of their minds at all times. They wear name tags so you know they want sex in a bathroom. Even if they're a 'tease'. Even if they say "I don't THINK so."...By God, they oughta KNOW so, or shut up.
Ben's a good guy. A hero. The poster boy for false rape accusations.
He did nothing wrong.
It was all her fault.
It wasn't that long ago that rape victims were named, their sexual habits were considered material to any judgment, they were thought to be 'asking for it' if they dressed provocatively and they were considered remiss for not taking precautions against being raped.
Now they are anonymous and any conduct on their part is considered irrelevant. All that matters is whether she was raped or not.
But look what's happened to men. If they are accused, they are named. Their sexual habits are considered relevant. If they initiate, they are responsible. If they don't take care in avoiding false rape accusations, they are stupid. They asked for it.
It's a complete reversal of 30 years ago.
"But he did nothing illegal,God knows, and it's not at all his fault. Let's bear that in mind at all times. He can have any woman he wants in any bathroom he wants. Doesn't make him a bad guy."
Yep.
He can have sex with any woman in any bathroom he wants.
And he is not a rapist.
You seem to think that, just because he did something which transgresses against YOUR moral code, he should be sent down for something, even if it's something he didn't do.
In other words, you are a world class asshole.
By Christian Boone and Kristi E. Swartz
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The GBI's month-long investigation into a rape accusation leveled against Ben Roethlisberger uncovered an allegation -- unsubstantiated -- by a second woman that the Steelers quarterback forced himself upon her. The incident allegedly occurred during a party at Roethlisberger's house in Reynolds Plantation. A young woman not interviewed by authorities claims the quarterback pulled his pants down and told her she could “do whatever she wants," according to the GBI report. A week later, the woman, believed to be 21 or 22, attended another party thrown by Roethlisberger. She claims the 28-year-old quarterback was drunk and forced his hand up her skirt. She was able to escape and informed her father of the incident but he apparently encouraged his daughter not to pursue a criminal complaint, the report states.
1. Victims of false rape accusations find it hard to defend themselves due to the prejudice of society and police.
2. Many, many victims of rape and sexual assault do not report the crimes due to fear of the attacker and the shame of being labled whores by society and police.
Guys like Ben help blur these two realities. Is Ben a legally guilty rapist beyond a reasonable doubt in court? Maybe no. but in the court of common sense, and his history, he is a sexual predator of young women that does not deserve support.
Yahoo Sports
"How many more dumb things in the offseason are the Steelers going to put up with from Roethlisberger before saying enough is enough? Fame and fortune have not been easy for him to handle, but instead of working harder and preparing intently for each game, he takes the “I got it without the work” attitude bordering on arrogance. As a result, he makes mistakes in games that cause his teammates and coaches to pull their hair out. His lack of responsibility on and off the field might be a result of his inability to handle success, or it might be Roethlisberger’s true personality."
Exactly, you don't go to jail for being "immoral" whatever that means. Immoral to you is probably something totally different from me.
Once we start judging morals in a court room is the day I leave America.
CBGirl
What on earth is a 'sexual predator', when this term explicitly does not refer to rapists?
Is it a man who ... *SHOCK* ... pursues women for sex?
THE PAW DEARS.
Because they never pursue men for sex - this girl certainly didn't write her own 'down to fuck' nametag or anything.
"Many, many victims of rape and sexual assault do not report the crimes due to fear of the attacker and the shame of being labled whores by society and police."
Haha. Bullshit. Women know full well that they can get ANY man tossed in jail and far away from them simply by picking up the phone.
And shame of being labelled a whore ... what? Obviously if you weren't consenting, then you weren't being a whore ...
Besides which, the high rate of false accusations proves that there is a certain type of woman who LOVES the attention she gets from making an accusation of rape. Some women can't even STOP doing it!
"Guys like Ben help blur these two realities."
Uh ... how exactly? Every case of false accusation 'blurs the two realities' by these definitions. So the solution is to blame the victim. Nice.
"Is Ben a legally guilty rapist beyond a reasonable doubt in court? Maybe no."
Obviously no.
"but in the court of common sense, and his history, he is a sexual predator of young women that does not deserve support."
Hahaha. 'The court of common sense.' Let's just make shit up to argue our point.
The court of vulgar sense, do you mean?
The comment already mentioned that false rape accusation victims face prejudice from society. LOL! So obviously COMMON SENSE can't tell us much of validity, can it?
Having been falsely accused in the past obviously does not indicate that he is a 'sexual predator', whatever that means ...
He likes young women? O NOES! The horror. The paw dears.
I support Ben!
By Michael O'Keeffe
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
"Blash reportedly told an off-duty police officer who was a member of Roethlisberger's entourage that the victim was "drunk off her ass" and lied about the alleged assault.
"We have a problem," Blash reportedly said. "This drunken b****, drunk off her ass, is accusing Ben of rape. This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's bull**** but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making s*** up."
TMZ, meanwhile, is reporting that Blash, an eight-year veteran of the department, posed for photos with Roethlisberger outside Capital City before the alleged attack took place.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on its Web site on Friday that another woman that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has leaend that a second woman has said Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her. The woman said she was at a party at the quarterback's home in central Georgia when he pulled down his pants and told her she could "do whatever she wants."
The woman said she attended another party thrown Roethlisberger a week later, and claims he forced his hand up her skirt. She decided not to pursue a criminal complaint at the insistence of her father.
A Nevada woman, meanwhile, filed a civil suit against Roethlisberger last year that claims he raped her in 2008."
This guy has a consistant pattern. He just has the power, money and the smarts to do it with out witnesses to allow him to get away with it.
Where is you feminazi / police state conspiracy in this case. He was surrounded by cops on his crew and local cops sucking up for pictures. This woman never had a chance.
Your quote
"Haha. Bullshit. Women know full well that they can get ANY man tossed in jail and far away from them simply by picking up the phone.
And shame of being labelled a whore ... what? Obviously if you weren't consenting, then you weren't being a whore ...
Besides which, the high rate of false accusations proves that there is a certain type of woman who LOVES the attention she gets from making an accusation of rape. Some women can't even STOP doing it!"
Snark, go ahead and live in your own world that false accusations out number the huge number of actual and unreported rapes. Unless you are calling all of the FBI crime data false you are wrong. What are the stat's for your "the high rate of false accusations"? Of course every false accusation is wrong, but you are obviously a cold hearted, one sided, female hating SOB.
They do not even keep statistics on false accusations because there are so many.
I can guarantee you right now that if any celebrity was accused of rape today, there would be women all over the country putting in their claim tomorrow.
Even if he was a life-long celibate monk.
Their motives may be many and varied, but the proliferation of false accusations is no longer an indicator of truth, but an inevitable outcome of law failing to recognize and punish malicious lying.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on its Web site on Friday that another woman that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has leaend that a second woman has said Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her. The woman said she was at a party at the quarterback's home in central Georgia when he pulled down his pants and told her she could "do whatever she wants."
The woman said she attended another party thrown Roethlisberger a week later, and claims he forced his hand up her skirt. She decided not to pursue a criminal complaint at the insistence of her father.
****
Well golly, if he whipped it out and told her she could do what she wanted, you can hardly call that sexual assault. And pulling out your pigskin is entirely appropriate if she's willing and you've been having a sexually charged conversation.
Obviously she couldn't have been too offended by it if she returned for another party with Ben the next week.
The pattern I'm seeing here is a horny man surrounding himself with horny women; an adolescent fantasy come true -- except the women are trying to cash in.
Luckily none of his accusers so far have taken the time to put together a compelling rape accusation! If any of them had he would be in huge trouble by now.
Snark, go ahead and live in your own world that false accusations out number the huge number of actual and unreported rapes. Unless you are calling all of the FBI crime data false you are wrong. What are the stat's for your "the high rate of false accusations"? Of course every false accusation is wrong, but you are obviously a cold hearted, one sided, female hating SOB.
***
The number of real rapes is NOT huge; the number has fallen by over 70% in the past fifteen years. Compare the number of men locked up for rape with Europe or Japan, for example.
The number of false CONVICTIONS could be as high as one in three. We have a very serious problem on our hands.
"Snark, go ahead and live in your own world that false accusations out number the huge number of actual and unreported rapes. Unless you are calling all of the FBI crime data false you are wrong. What are the stat's for your "the high rate of false accusations"? Of course every false accusation is wrong, but you are obviously a cold hearted, one sided, female hating SOB."
Women usually sleep with me before coming out with stuff like this, but I guess I'll make an exception for you.
And somebody answer a question for me: why is it that EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME a male celebrity is accused of rape it turns out to be bullcrap?
I mean, come on; Kobe, Duke Lax, David Copperfield, Ben... is there a single male celebrity who actually committed a rape? Now they're trying to accuse that guy Jesse James of something. It's ridiculous.
The war is against men, not against rapists. Our society is off in la-la land on this issue.
"The war is against men, not against rapists."
Feminists LIKE rapists.
Just as long as they're raping the RIGHT PEOPLE.
Get what I'm saying?
" Unless you are calling all of the FBI crime data false you are wrong."
The last time the FBI kept tabs of false rape claims they called them "unfounded" but defined that as false or baseless), they found that rape lies were 7 and 1/2 more common than for all other crimes.
Which FBI stats are you referencing? Their official stats show rape at astonishingly low numbers compared to what the feminists tell us. Especially on campus.
Snark
Are you from Iowa? Sounds like your not particular who you bed. You don't know if I am a woman, man, or barnyard animal.
Something's telling me you're the latter...
"Snark
Are you from Iowa? Sounds like your not particular who you bed. You don't know if I am a woman, man, or barnyard animal."
Cool story.
Actually, none of this has anything to do with serious FRS issues, it's a silly debate about a guy that drinks too much and pushes the edge of assualt and imtimidation with his women. He will either grow up or go to jail and or make a lot of lawyers and women rich with lawsuits. He's an asshole not worth the effort
No he doesn't. Get a life.
What 'imtimidation?'
Repeat: get a life. Quit making things up.
How many times does it need to be said?
It doesn't matter whether the guy is an asshole, or a loyal, dependable nice guy.
A false accusation is a false accusation.
That remains true regardless of the victim's character.
There is nothing about one's character that makes a false accusation "not as bad."
And this is why you always have to keep on your toes and demand FACTS and DETAILS from those (like the above poster) who are all-too-eager to enable false accusations.
It is so easy to say, "TWO ACCUSERS??? HOLY JESUS, WHERE THERE'S SMOKE THERE'S FIRE!"
And then the douchebag begins inventing accusations of his own! For example, nobody has accused Ben of intimidation or threats. But all of a sudden -- he's a creep who intimidates women!
Then, since there is absolutely no proof of any crime, "He pushes the edge of assault."
What exactly is "the edge of assault?" That's when there is no reason whatsoever to believe the liars, but you want to believe them anyway, so you start blathering about "the edge of assault" and "an atmosphere of coercion."
It's bullshit, and also a prime example of men turning on one another. No wonder the feminists have been able to do so much damage! THEY ARE LOYAL TO THEMSELVES, EACH OTHER AND THEIR CAUSE -- WE ARE OFTEN NOT.
If you watch the Sports shows they are saying Ben is in way more trouble with his public image than Tiger. Tiger likes Pu**sy and is good at it. He is only guilty of lying to his wife, not keeping a throw away cell phone, and being a really cheap tipper. Most men secretly are proud of him. He will be forgiven.
Ben has developed an image of a person that draws assualt and rape charges due to his habits. Much harder to forgive. If it makes you guys happier, I just read that the Pope has declared Ben innocent of all sins past and present, and sent him a stupid sign in latin.
Can we please get this straight? No one here is defending Ben Roethlisberger, personally.
We are defending a principle.
We are defending the presumptively innocent against the mad rush to judgment, and the tendency to convict perceived scumbags in the court of last resort -- the kitchen tables of every American home where the judge, jury, and executioner are the thick, clucking tongues of know-it-all men and women passing judgment on every subject under the sun, based solely on what the media tells them. The media -- that was so correct about Duke lacrosse, Hofstra and a thousand others. The media, that declares, "since it has a penis, it must be guilty!"
So please stop saying we are defending Ben Roethlisberger.
"If you watch the Sports shows they are saying Ben is in way more trouble with his public image than Tiger. Tiger likes Pu**sy and is good at it. He is only guilty of lying to his wife, not keeping a throw away cell phone, and being a really cheap tipper. Most men secretly are proud of him. He will be forgiven."
You really are flogging it aren't you?
You don't seem to know much about men at all. Figures.
By the way, who's paying you?
WHAT???
"the number [of rapes] has fallen by over 70% in the past fifteen years."
That should give you a good idea of the NIGHTMARE rape victims went through 15 years ago in 1995!!!!!
Hey, what about ... say 15 years before that in 1980??
And another 15 years before that ... say in 1965.
Do you guys ever THINK before you go off half cocked?
"That should give you a good idea of the NIGHTMARE rape victims went through 15 years ago in 1995!!!!!
Hey, what about ... say 15 years before that in 1980??
And another 15 years before that ... say in 1965."
Funny you should mention that. I can remember 1965 onwards very well.
Rape was rare. Women weren't afraid of men. They worked, went to school and went out at night alone. Lots of people only ever locked their doors when they went away on vacation. On hot nights the back door would be left wide open with only the screen door fastened to keep out night insects. Children slept safely under open windows. Admittedly I'm talking about a country town, but in that same town today all of this is gone.
Women are more obsessed with rapists and pedophiles now than they ever have been in my memory - and not once have I ever been witness to a rape, though I have seen car accidents, bar-fights and house-fires, which aren't everyday occurrences.
The thing is, you're making a false assumption.
If rape has dropped 70% in the past 15 years, that isn't the same as saying rape anxiety has dropped 70% as well. The irony is that rape anxiety has increased to the point of near incoherent hysteria.
It's reached the point of being a psychological affliction.
But I suspect you're not really interested in anything except turning a discussion about a false rape accusation into one about rape.
Old trick, really boring.
If you watch the Sports shows they are saying Ben is in way more trouble with his public image than Tiger.
****
That's because this is fresh news, duh. Tiger is already old news.
The NFL has former accused murderers, animal abusers, etc. on the payroll; Ben on the other hand hasn't even been charged with anything, so don't get your panties in a twist.
So is this the new fad? The non-rape accusation, carefully crafting the police report so that you can deny later on that you even accused your target of rape?
Pretty clever, actually. Great way of fishing for a payoff without committing to the inconvenience of going to court.
And here's the positive side of this: the woman accusing Ben didn't go all the way and insist that he raped her.
Why? Quite possibly because of these reports about women being charged for filing false police reports.
According to the dna tests the only way that he could have had sex with her is if he has no dna.
Because that is the only way that he could have had sex with her and left no dna.
She was taken to the hospital within a few hours tops.
So consent is not even an issue....I do not think they even had sex or did much of anything sexual.
"Funny you should mention that. I can remember 1965 onwards very well. Rape was rare. Women weren't afraid of men."
Stranger rape was rare for all the reasons you mentioned. Acquaintance rape was not reported. When it happened, she MUST have asked for it, or she MUST have wanted it, or she MUST have been a tease, or drunk, or easy, or whatever. Label her a whore, she got what she deserved, right?
Now that you've been educated, the rape hysteria, as frs calls it, shouldn't surprise you or anyone else.
Notice how big of a deal that the media is making about this Big Ben case.
Keep in mind this woman that is accusing Ben has no real injuries at all.
Now contrast that with others in the NFL like the guy who was drunk and KILLED a guy that he ran over.
You do not hear about that all day every day on the news.
So a guy getting killed is no big deal...so what!
But some woman messing around in a bathroom with Big Ben who is not injured at all is like a nuclear bomb went off.
A man gets killed...no big deal.
A woman messes around with a guy in the toilet of a bar....the whole country goes batshit insane on a I hate Big Ben he is scum rampage 24-7 for months.
Snark - World class asshole here - No where did I say poor Bennie boy should 'go down' for anything.
Personally, I think he should be voted Prom King.
But I suspect you're not really interested in anything except turning a discussion about a false rape accusation into one about rape.
You set up the discussion yourself by the ridiculous claim that rape has dropped 70%.
I'm not the poster that posted about rape dropping by 70% but it made me wonder about it.
So I went and looked up the statistics for my city.
I could only find crime statistics for the years 1980 through 2005.
So here is what it looked like...
Rapes in 1980 299
Rapes in 2005 117
I'm getting a 61% decrease if my math is correct.
And this is with the advent of all the rape shield laws and broadening the definition of rape and acquaintance rape and date rape and marital rape and on and on.
Also victims groups giving out huge sums of money based on nothing other than someone's word.
Look at Kobe's accuser she got like $17,000 just for saying she was raped.
So I'm trying to be impartial here but the 70% reduction the other poster is saying is correct for my city. Adding all the other factors of making reporting so much easier and broadening the definition of rape and paying "victims" and it's probably more like a 90%+ reduction in my city.
I've been thinking about this Big Ben thing the last few hours. Until the last few weeks I bet less than 3% to 5% of the public would have known who Ben was. Now he is imfamous and known as the scum bag of the decade. This includes me. I am sure he is a scum bag, but compared to all of the other troubles and bad shit in this world he is nothing.
The truth is the media has a nose for what drives ratings and helps sell beer ads. They have obtained the power to make us think and feel anything they want, and more important to ignore the really important stuff like what our Gov't is doing. It reminds me of Orwells 1984. I hope it is not to late to save ourselves.
Even fucking Rainn.org admits that rape has decreased by 60% since 1993. Read it yourself, dummy.
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault
(Kind of makes your head hurt, doens't it? I mean, having to argue against facts.)
Ben is obviously no more a scumbag than the women he parties with, and since feminists would never, ever condemn a rape victim for going out and getting drunk, then getting raped, then engaging in the exact same behavior and getting raped again, I can't condemn Ben Roethlisberger for having consensual sex with a groupie, getting falsely accused, then having even more sex and getting falsely accused (or did she even accuse him of rape?) again.
A man has a right to be free from false accusations, no matter how else he behaves within the bounds of the law.
"And somebody answer a question for me: why is it that EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME a male celebrity is accused of rape it turns out to be bullcrap?"
That's a good question.
Considering the number of all the famous men -- actors, authors, athletes, etc. -- there would be hundreds if not thousands of celebrity rapists, if rape was as common as the feminists claim.
Also, why does almost every celebrity rape claim (eg.. Oprah, Tori Amos) turn out to be bullcrap?
"WHAT???
"the number [of rapes] has fallen by over 70% in the past fifteen years."
That should give you a good idea of the NIGHTMARE rape victims went through 15 years ago in 1995!!!!!"
No, that should give you an idea of the nightmare black men went through. As the number of rape convictions went down, so did the percentage of blacks convicted. So it's not so much that there is less actual rape, but that there is less racism.
"Stranger rape was rare for all the reasons you mentioned. Acquaintance rape was not reported."
Which was a good thing because acquaintance rape is bullshit. Criminals generally do not commit crimes when they can be easily identified by their victims.
"So it's not so much that there is less actual rape, but that there is less racism."
Bingo! Thank you, Anon, for spelling it out so clearly.
To Anon 9:06
Your quote "Stranger rape was rare for all the reasons you mentioned. Acquaintance rape was not reported."
Which was a good thing because acquaintance rape is bullshit. Criminals generally do not commit crimes when they can be easily identified by their victims."
I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists. To say "acquaintance rape is bullshit" and nobody does crime on people they know is ignorant. The lawyer hosting this sight is wasting his time trying to change perceptions of FRA with no brain Mother F^^kers like you. Rot in Hell
Archivist has summed up my feelings on this. Ben's behaviour and lifestyle may not be one that I understand or approve of, but I sure as hell believe that he should be proven guilty in a court of law of commiting a crime before being labeled as a criminal.
You know what I would like to have happen, (and I know it's not going to, but this is what I'd like to have happen). I'd like to have the media barred on reporting on cases until the court has a made a ruling and the accused has been found guilty or not guilty. That way people who are accused can be tried in a court of justice instead of being tried in a court of public opinion.
I'd like it to happen, that victims only are referred to as such, once a court has determined that that they are in fact a victim of crime. This includes any pay outs (victim's compensation or otherwise) that such a person would receive.
Lastly, I would like for every person for whom there is credible evidence that proves that they have made a false accusation to be charged and penalised for doing so.
As it stands right now, anyone can make an accusation, and they are labeled a victim. They may receive compensation. If they are shown to have lied, then most of the time they get off scott free.
Whereas the accused has their life distrupted, is often labeled a criminal before a single shred of evidence has been heard before a judge let alone a jury, and in addition has to the deal with the reprecussions for the rest of their lives.
Don't get me wrong. Punish the criminal, support and compensation the victim. But first make sure that the person you are punishing, is in fact a criminal, and the person you are compensating and supporting is in fact a victim. Not doing so is not only unfair, and unjust, it may lead to the tragic circumstances outlined by Archivist in the story above this one. That story has me wishing that there was more I could do to fight against this type of injustice.
"I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists. To say "acquaintance rape is bullshit" and nobody does crime on people they know is ignorant. The lawyer hosting this sight is wasting his time trying to change perceptions of FRA with no brain Mother F^^kers like you. Rot in Hell"
That's nice. Except you are the one being ignorant. The whole point of inventing date rape was to use the word "rape" to describe non-rape. It's moved from threat or use of force, to expressed non-consent, to not explicitly expressed consent, to explicit consent regretted after the fact. It's not rape if any reasonable person would believe the other person was consenting at the time. And afaik, the lawyers who run this site agree with me.
"I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists. To say "acquaintance rape is bullshit" and nobody does crime on people they know is ignorant. The lawyer hosting this sight is wasting his time trying to change perceptions of FRA with no brain Mother F^^kers like you. Rot in Hell"
Do I judge the entire feminist movement on the basis of the misadrist moonbats who say "all men are rapists," or that
men who are unjustly accused of rape "have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them," or "only two percent of all rape claims are false"?
I do not. But thanks for judging an entire noble effort based solely on the musings of an anonymous commentator. That tells everyone much more about you than about what we're doing here.
To me this is also highly disturbing, that Pittsburgh feminists and manginas would force this:
Update: Sgt. Blash has resigned the police force
Sure does tilt which way police are forced to weigh the he said/she said in making an arrest decision, doesn't it?
Rot in Hell
Oh please you just exposed yourself what you are,by judging this site like this and you can't fool me.
Seems like the feminist society comes with religious morals and what they think is unnaceptable behaiviour to follow they say hell to get their ways,which is why we still have problems when women falsely accuse of rape and the media doesn't expose names of the one who falsely cried rape.And people just want to get rid of people in power,but they can't so easily with an innocent man that is in power and has friends and his own social circle.The problem happen if you aren't so rich or have such a social circle.
Why do you believe i put trust on the judge courts to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt but you don't.
If i would hear a woman who would have obvious injuries and all the proof that was part of violent behaiviour then i would see it as rape.
But playing around with a man and his nature,but then denying him sex while it seems both have still seen through their eyes what happened.You don't need to play will you fall for the trap game?
Best thing is not to drink and not to feel hurt from feelings,but from injuries that were of violent nature.This woman never said it was rape,anyway they both were in a clumsy situation as it seems.
Maybe we have problems of perceptions and trust.Who is creating problems of trust,don't want to be sexually free as you wanted and have responsibilites also?
Changing your stories too much doesn't make you trustfull.
"To me this is also highly disturbing, that Pittsburgh feminists and manginas would force this:
Update: Sgt. Blash has resigned the police force
Sure does tilt which way police are forced to weigh the he said/she said in making an arrest decision, doesn't it?"
The power of shame,too much protection and don't accept individualism,what else this would be.
Which was a good thing because acquaintance rape is bullshit. Criminals generally do not commit crimes when they can be easily identified by their victims."
***
"Acquaintance rape" is where you really have to watch out, because the potential for railroading innocent men is so high.
Strangely, the recidivism rate for acquaintance rape is extremely low -- far lower than for other forms of rape. Now, if a man is convicted of rape, and later on commits another felony, that tells me that he was most likely guilty of what he was convicted of before.
But then why is the recidivism rate for acquaintance rape so low? Is it because half of the men convicted of it are innocent? Most of those convictions are based solely on the word of the accuser, and we all know that women can lie about this.
Incidentally, those who think that our positions are too extreme need to put these criminal justice issues into context.
Our legal system is extreme: we incarcerate at a rate that is several times higher than those of other industrialized nations; we lock up a quarter of the world's prisoners while having only one twentieth of the world's population. Our penalties for rape rival those for murder. This is one of the only places on earth where you can get a life sentence based on nothing more than the word of a woman who may or may not be lying through her teeth; and meanwhile, her identity is concealed by the media, which all but acts as an arm of the prosecution by default.
Is it extreme for us to question this very oppressive legal/media system, or is it extreme to just reflexively write off these criticisms as "rape apologism"?
@12:58, "I could only find crime statistics for the years 1980 through 2005.
Rapes in 1980 299
Rapes in 2005 117
I'm getting a 61% decrease if my math is correct"
That may well be, but my point was to evoke your imagination. If we had 299 rapes in 1980, it scares me to think what might happened 25 years BEFORE 1980.
Logic suggests the number could have easily exceeded over 400 during the 1950's and 1960's. Frightening isn't it.
Not really. What frightens me is the carelessness with which our legal system destroys innocent men and then enables the liars to get away with it. Rape is a minor issue in comparison.
Incidentally, it is a mistake to assume that the reduct in rape was caused by our rather strange way of punishing rape in this country. Stalinesque sentencing, sex offender databases, etc. have little to do with it.
It was caused by getting tough on criminals in general, not sex offenders in particular -- and certainly not by destroying innocent lives. The vast majority of rapes are committed not by serial rapists, but by common criminals who normally will not commit a second rape.
There is no justification for the harm that is being done to innocent lives.
And in response to anon's repeated fantasies about how terrible things were before feminism, crime rates used to be far, far lower before the sixties. People used to sleep with their doors unlocked, even in poor neighborhoods.
Amazing what you can accomplish when you destroy the family.
"If we had 299 rapes in 1980, it scares me to think what might happened 25 years BEFORE 1980.
Logic suggests the number could have easily exceeded over 400 during the 1950's and 1960's. Frightening isn't it."
I don't think logic suggests any such thing.
You're extrapolating a trend over a 30 year period where seriously draconian anti-rape laws were enacted back over prior periods where rape law was more static. There's no logical reason to make such a simple extrapolation - it's about as reasonable as saying 'it was sunny an hour ago and sunnier 2 hours ago, therefore it must have been like the Sahara 12 hours ago'.
As other posters have also pointed out, racism awareness has also risen over that same time-frame, so throwing black men in jail on some woman's whim has probably declined as well.
Once better laws are enacted and false rape accusers get treated like the low-life they are and begin to fear the law, rape numbers will decline even further.
And why are you so "scared" and "frightened" about assumptions you make of history? Such jumping at shadows makes your judgment sound all the more unreliable.
Because his assumption is that all of human history amounts to a man's boot being ground in a woman's face. That's the feminist narrative.
He also suffers from chronological bias: assuming that things are now better than they used to be, because... well, this is 2010, and progressives have made a lot of progress, dang it!
He can't imagine that in a lot of ways, our society was better fifty years ago.
"Because his assumption is that all of human history amounts to a man's boot being ground in a woman's face. That's the feminist narrative.
He also suffers from chronological bias: assuming that things are now better than they used to be, because... well, this is 2010, and progressives have made a lot of progress, dang it!
He can't imagine that in a lot of ways, our society was better fifty years ago."
What are you gonna do with teaching girls about power(rape) without responsibilites.
Can a girl just say rape when her feelings don't add up to get their way no sexual contact needed and yet these people will still hunt the man first,or after that he was proven innocent beyond reasonable doubt.
You are a weak parent feminist.You don't care about all people.
Anon at 3:44
You are right on target.
The United States has far and away the highest incarceration rate out of any country in the world.
And 93%-94% of the people incarcerated are MALE.
We have so many laws here it's unreal.
Contrast this with a country like the Netherlands where drugs and prostitution are both legal and they have maybe 1-7th or so the amount of people in prison and a murder rate that is about 1-5th of what we have here.
"But then why is the recidivism rate for acquaintance rape so low? Is it because half of the men convicted of it are innocent?"
Exact numbers aside, yes. The recidivism rate is low because the false conviction rate is high.
The numbers are consistent with a false conviction rape of roughly 1/2 for "date rape," and a lower rate of false convictions for stranger rape, adding up to a false conviction rate for rape of slightly more than one in three.
This would explain why convicted rapists in general and especially date rapists are so much less likely to offend again.
And usually when a rapist re-offends, he commits a crime other than rape. So the approach of focusing intensely on rape in and of itself is not an efficient strategy for reducing it.
"I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists."
No, you have been trying to justify your objectionable view that any man who doesn't accord with your approved lifestyle deserves what he gets in being falsely accused, by setting up a straw man argument that anyone who disagrees with you is a rape apologist.
Because you are a false rape allegation apologist, you can only cover yourself by claiming anyone who disagrees with you is a rape apologist. Talk about a false choice! We either have to blame those falsely accused, or blame rape victims! No third option on the menu! Fuck, what a choice!
For what it's worth, I have seen objectionable comments of varying degrees on this site. But I have not seen anything justifying rape or blaming rape victims. Feel free to search this site for comments saying that it is okay to force women to have sex. Or indeed find such comments that have gone unchallenged by our host or others.
Anonymous said...
To Anon 9:06
Your quote "Stranger rape was rare for all the reasons you mentioned. Acquaintance rape was not reported."
Which was a good thing because acquaintance rape is bullshit. Criminals generally do not commit crimes when they can be easily identified by their victims."
I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists. To say "acquaintance rape is bullshit" and nobody does crime on people they know is ignorant. The lawyer hosting this sight is wasting his time trying to change perceptions of FRA with no brain Mother F^^kers like you. Rot in Hell
Apr 17, 2010 9:32:00 AM
Anon - this is a site by and for INNOCENT men falsely accused of rape.
A person making a statement like "aquaintance rape is BS" no doubt feels that way from his own experience and perception.
As much as I support and defend those falsely accused of rape, I know this is not true from my own personal experiences, as you apparently do as well.
This shows how much both sides of this issue need accurate facts and truths.
Hysterical proclaimations that "False rape accusations are rare" and countered by opposing proclaimations that "aquaintance rape is rare".
What we should be doing is DEMANDING accurate truths from our legal system.
We live in a bizarro world that promotes one sided views. White crime or racism is loudly and broadly displayed, but crime and racism stats against whites is quashed.
Male misbehaviors are held up to public scrutiny constantly, while female misbehaviors are secreted.
Since we cannot rely on those who SHOULD be monitoring all this to be fair and unbiased - and agenda - free - we have only ourselves to rely on.
"I now really understand that this site is just a place for fringe radical rape appologists. To say "acquaintance rape is bullshit" and nobody does crime on people they know is ignorant. The lawyer hosting this sight is wasting his time trying to change perceptions of FRA with no brain Mother F^^kers like you. Rot in Hell"
I think a little perspective is in order.
There will be a few people expressing extreme views on this site and others from time to time.
But it has no bearing on the central message whatsoever.
There are certainly some extremists amongst the feminist camp - some go so far as to promote the killing of men, others promote arbitrary and mass imprisonment of men, some propose ways in which men can be exterminated. Many laugh when they hear of men having their penises cut off. They publicly gloat on the prospect of a man being raped in prison. They publicly wish for a man they are addressing to be raped.
Other feminists do not feel obliged to apologize for this presence amongst them. It's enough for them to say "Not all feminists are like that" and ignore any further complaint.
That's what we men will be doing more of in future.
If you think that means all of us here endorse the views of the extremists amongst us, then surely your estimation of feminists must be several orders lower.
To reiterate from the FWO blog:
The Andria McNulty accusations (the first accusations) against Roethlisberger appear to have been quickly, 100% proven false by at least four witnesses who testified McNulty bragged to everyone who would listen that she had consensual sex with Roethlisberger, and hoped she was pregnant with his baby. Dozens of Emails and Text Messages that were sent by Andria McNulty herself supported the testimony of the witnesses, and contradicted what she told police. BTW, every news outlet is conveniently leaving out this small detail when they report the two accusations. If anything, it could be argued that one False Rape accusation against a man would make it less likely that he is guilty, if a second accusation is made.
But, what about misconduct on the part of Roethlisberger?… What did he really do? Well, he posed with female and male fans for photos. I hear a lot of people saying that he shouldn’t pose with females for photos. The problem with that logic is that Roethlisberger would then be demonized for thinking he is above the general public. A lot of people are saying that he shouldn’t be talking to 20 year old women. Hmmm… Let’s see… The average American girl is having sex by 14 to 15, at the latest. So, chances are a 20 year old woman has been having sex for at least 5 to 6 years. A man shouldn’t even talk to a woman who has been having sex for 5 to 6 years?… Rubbish!! Many people are still saying Roethlisberger deserves to be falsely accused of rape or sexual assault, because he is supposedly promiscuous. Since False Rape accusations are a crime, people are actually saying that Roethlisberger deserves to have crimes perpetrated against him because he is supposedly promiscuous… That is the same flawed logic as saying a woman deserves to be raped because she is promiscuous.
Men should demand something better... Women who are demonized after being raped are often said to "have been raped twice". So too, are men who are demonized after False Rape... Those men "have been raped twice".
It's as if they want to lock him up just for having consensual sex with women.
So much for the sexual revolution!
"Hysterical proclaimations that "False rape accusations are rare" and countered by opposing proclaimations that "aquaintance rape is rare".
What we should be doing is DEMANDING accurate truths from our legal system."
Well, according to the best information the justice system has to offer, acquaintance rape is rare based on the number of convictions of offenders known to their victims. And based on the recidivism rate and other statistics, most of those convictions are false. While I agree that there is room for much more research and better accounting of rape reports, saying "acquaintance rape is rare" is not some hysterical counter-statement, but rather the most logical conclusion from the data we have.
Anonymous said...
"Hysterical proclaimations that "False rape accusations are rare" and countered by opposing proclaimations that "aquaintance rape is rare".
What we should be doing is DEMANDING accurate truths from our legal system."
Well, according to the best information the justice system has to offer, acquaintance rape is rare based on the number of convictions of offenders known to their victims. And based on the recidivism rate and other statistics, most of those convictions are false. While I agree that there is room for much more research and better accounting of rape reports, saying "acquaintance rape is rare" is not some hysterical counter-statement, but rather the most logical conclusion from the data we have.
Apr 19, 2010 6:12:00 PM
Do you have published numbers or sources to back up this claim?
Not that I don't trust you personally - I've learned not to trust ANYone with unverified numbers.
I would appreciate the source of such information greatly.
One thing to note - recidivism rates of ANY sex crime are low - not just aquaintance rape.
People on sex offender registries are the most UNlikely to reoffend - NOT the most likely, as we are lead to believe. Over 90 % of such crimes are committed by those who have no record - it's why sex offender registries are in fact, almost totally useless.
I've never heard anyone conclude because child abusers don't reoffend, they were most likely innocent to start with.
"Do you have published numbers or sources to back up this claim?"
Have yourself a field day:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/index.html
"I've never heard anyone conclude because child abusers don't reoffend, they were most likely innocent to start with."
Both adult and child rape suffer from the same sort of hysteria which leads to bad jurisprudence.
One thing to note - recidivism rates of ANY sex crime are low - not just aquaintance rape.
***
Recidivism rates for rapists (in particular "stranger rapists") are lower than for other felons, but not nearly as low as that of "acquaintence rapists."
And when rapists re-offend, it is almost always for something other than rape. So rapists are really just common criminals who happen to have committed one rape, not a special brand of criminal.
The low recidivism rates are easily explained if you assume that a very large number of innocent men are being convicted. The innocent are obviously highly unlikely to commit a crime upon release.
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