Alex Knepper is a provocateur whose assaults on feminsm's rhetorical excesses on campus have a no-holds-barred, in-your-face flavor. His controversial statements in a recent column that appeard in The Eagle, a student newspaper of American University, touched off a maelstrom of a gender debate, with the indignant, chronically offended, political correctness police out in full force. I had not intended to comment on it, because so many others have already done so, and because, as with almost everything in this area, the picture is more complex, more nuanced and less exciting, than either Mr. Knepper's defenders or detractors admit. What Mr. Knepper is most "guilty" of is politically incorrect impolitenss to a group widely regarded as historically oppressed. But the college administrators ought to listen to him, if they care about things like male enrollment, because his views are the views of a lot of young men on campus.
Now Mr. Knepper has written a new piece that I want to highlight. Before looking at Mr. Knepper's new piece, here are the three paragraphs in his earlier piece that spurred the most controversy:
Let’s get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy’s room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK? To cry “date rape” after you sober up the next morning and regret the incident is the equivalent of pulling a gun to someone’s head and then later claiming that you didn’t ever actually intend to pull the trigger.
“Date rape” is an incoherent concept. There’s rape and there’s not-rape, and we need a line of demarcation. It’s not clear enough to merely speak of consent, because the lines of consent in sex — especially anonymous sex — can become very blurry. If that bothers you, then stick with Pat Robertson and his brigade of anti-sex cavemen! Don’t jump into the sexual arena if you can’t handle the volatility of its practice!
Feminists don’t understand history, psychology, biology or sexuality. To repair this desperate situation, I have altruistically prepared a list of five favored books about sex and gender: “The Myth of Male Power” by Warren Farrell, “The Sexual Spectrum” by Olive Skene Johnson, “Vamps and Tramps” by Camille Paglia, “Philosophy In the Bedroom” by the divine Marquis de Sade, and “Who Stole Feminism?” by Christina Hoff Sommers. Put down the Andrea Dworkin and embrace the fires of sexuality!
Mr. Knepper was widely denounced in some circles as a misogynist for this language. As for his first paragraph, it is well to note that there is no national law of rape, and states differ as to the level of intoxication that must be present to negate legal consent. The purported victim's voluntary intoxication may, depending on the jurisdiction, bar prosecution for rape. The trend, however, is to make it more difficult to use the woman's intoxication to preclude a rape charge. This is part of the effort stretching back to the 70s to classify more and more conduct as "rape."
But very few of the attacks on Mr. Knepper talked about silly things like, oh, the law. A lot of the criticism hurled at him seemed to denounce his audacity for suggesting that the circumstance he described in that first paragraph could ever not be date rape. While I would have written the paragraph differently, I suspect that the everday experience of most people would agree that the scenario Knepper painted is typically a strong indicator of consent. Remember, consent need not (and usually isn't) expressed verbally (and that might be at the core of much of the frustration over Knepper's column). Consent may be manifested by conduct, and, generally, is to be judged from the perspective of a reasonable person in the situation of the male, based on all the surrounding circumstances. It would not be valid consent if other facts were present that are not revealed here negating a reasonable interpretation of consent. I suspect, however, that it is an unstated assumption in Mr. Knepper's scenario that once up in the young man's room, the woman willingly participated in sex.
Knepper's dismissal of "consent" in his second paragraph is troublesome. Lack of consent is, in fact, the sine qua non of rape. Let me help him here: the problem isn't "consent"; the problem is that the presence or absence of consent can be difficult for third party adjudicators to discern after-the-fact, since it is often based on a host of surrounding circumstances. Given this problem, charging for rape in "he said/she said" situations, in the absence of other clear evidence, where both parties have plausible accounts is not appropriate. (I would go further and note that focusing on the criminality or non-criminality of the sex act is too facile, and it doesn't work. We need a national education effort to teach young people about the dangers of alcohol and sex, and about how the combination of the two often leads to rape claims and false rape claim, because men and women view one-night stands very differently -- women have much higher rates of regret after-the-fact, recent studies show).
Now Mr. Knepper has written a new piece in response to the AU president's statement condemning his earlier column. The president said: "I want to acknowledge the challenges our community faced in the wake of a provocative column in the March 31 Eagle on the topic of date rape. . . .. Date rape victims/survivors were personally affected and many were deeply offended by the column’s words. The Eagle editors have acknowledged they could have made different editorial choices that would have avoided the harm without compromising First Amendment rights."
Mr. Knepper's response is brutally honest:
Next up in the carnival of horrors: my hurtful, insensitive language. This is the essence of liberalism, really: to become disheveled every time something offends one’s fragile little sensibilities. They’re offended, so they throw papers around, or appeal to bureaucrats or administrators to pick up the pieces of their shattered egos (and such administrators respond in kind, it seems). Is this what strong women do? Apparently, they can’t help it, in the midst of a “challenge” like my column. Indeed, when a controversial conversation is started, it’s now a challenge, according to President Kerwin. When feminists place displays all over the dining hall (!) with bogus statistics — “1 in 3 women will be raped in their lifetime” — and male-bashing messages — “Rape is a Men’s Issue” — this is apparently educational; any affront to it must be considered a “challenge” to the community’s cohesion. (Then again, since, as the feminists point out, rape is a men’s issue — since most rapists are men — does this mean that we can finally admit that suicide bombing is a Muslim issue?)
We concur with the spirit of this paragraph. This particular blog, which tries to lay out the facts in a reasonable and correct manner, is often attacked. Feminists have wished me to be brutally raped merely for writing a post about the importance of Blackstone's formulation (which is accepted by every court in America). The existence of this blog is deemed a "challenge" to the "truth," as they claim to know it. They treat us with derision, and sarcasm. When I invite them to discuss objective facts, they disappear. So, Mr. Knepper is to be commended for daring to attack the forces of political correctness, who too often do not tell the truth and who, let us be honest, have little or no regard for persons falsely accused of rape.
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25 comments:
"Knepper's dismissal of "consent" in his second paragraph is troublesome. "Consent" is, in fact, the sine qua non of rape. Let me help him here: the problem isn't "consent"; the problem is that the presence or absence of consent can be difficult for third party adjudicators to discern after-the-fact, since it is often based on a host of surrounding circumstances."
I see it as you are both saying the same thing in different ways. Consent only exists inside people's heads. Since its presence cannot be easily discerned by a third party after the fact, we do need a better line of demarcation. Therefore non-consent, not consent, is the "sine qua non of rape".
You were viewing an earlier version of the post while I was tinkering with it. Look at it now.
Under the law, what matters isn't subjective consent, it is the outward manifestations of consent. Rememeber, the test in most jurisdictions is this: WOULD A REASONABLE PERSON IN THE POSITION OF THE MALE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS CONSENT?
Good to see Knepper not backing down from the feminist thought police and their white knight cowards.
Usually after the PC anti-free speech crowd attacks we get a apology from the offender:
"I apologize to anyone I may or may not have offended."
We can get into the feminist minutia of what "consent" is, but the most important thing is Knepper didn't back down one inch. Now, we just need 10,000 more Alex Kneppers and maybe we'll make some progress.
"We can get into the feminist minutia of what "consent" is . . . "
No, sir, that's just it -- the feminists don't want to get into miunutia about "consent." They want to redefine it. They want it to mean a woman's subjective desires, thoughts, and whims divorced from their outward manifesations of assent. In fact, the latter are the only thing that matter.
See, if we actually forced people to discuss what "consent" really means in this context, they'd have a much better understanding of "rape," and they'd also know that it isn't as rampant as the sexual grievance industry suggests.
The only problem is Knepper's new article appears on a right-wing blog, so most of the people who read it will be in the right-wing echo chamber.
It really needed to be published in the school's newspaper, Eagle.
So in a way this is still a victory for feminists and the anti-free speech thugs at the University.
No, sir, that's just it -- the feminists don't want to get into miunutia about "consent." They want to redefine it.
No you're right, I kind of knew you were going jump on that statement I made ;)
What we need is men who write for campus newspapers to discuss this issue frankly, but with a slightly more diplomatic tone than Knepper, not PC approved, but diplomatic.
Although I'm glad Knepper got them all riled up, this approach has its uses too. Very satisfying when the feminist bubble of lies gets punctured.
Unfortunately, anyone who finds themselves in feminism's bulls-eye will not be welcome in most college newspapers, which have become little more than left-wing echo chambers. The Eagle actually had the balls to publish his first one, but I suspect it will never make that "mistake" again. Read the message of AU's president about free speech -- "The Eagle editors have acknowledged they could have made different editorial choices that would have avoided the harm without compromising First Amendment rights."
What does that mean? Oh, let me guess: do what feminist blogs do -- censor, and justify it on the ground that the article did not meet the editorial standards of the paper (because it incites hate about a victim class). See? That's just an editorial decision, but it's consistent with "free speech."
It looks like you are still saying the same thing.
My point, and I believe his point, is that what should matter is the outward manifestation of non-consent.
So we agree that "charging for rape in 'he said/she said' situations, in the absence of other clear evidence, where both parties have plausible accounts is not appropriate," but that in order for charges or university action to be appropriate there should be evidence of non-consent. Which is the essence of rape, not an absence of consent.
To put it another way, if someone doesn't voice any objection and otherwise seems a voluntary participant then the other person would reasonably understand that there was not non-consent. However, it might not mean that they were consenting in the feminist sense -- the political situation and use of language that the author is facing on campus -- that it's rape unless a woman is completely sober, obviously enthusiastic, absolutely unambivalent, and expresses emphatic verbal agreement -- preferably in the form of a notarized contract.
I know this is going to sound politically incorrect, but oftentimes women who actually do want to have sex have trouble coming right out and saying it. Which is what many consider "consent", but it's absence doesn't make it rape.
"What we need is men who write for campus newspapers to discuss this issue frankly, but with a slightly more diplomatic tone than Knepper, not PC approved, but diplomatic."
Right. I find that when we lay out the facts about "consent," they slink away quietly.
Then the big battleground is prevalence of rape and false rape claims, and alleged underreporting. For those subjects, they say any damn thing they want, and few people have the courage to challenge them.
[off topic]
Since Dawn, a infrequent poster, but apparent frequent reader once told of a number of her friends claiming to have been raped in college, but dissuaded by the school administration from reporting (despite what actually doing such a thing would have resulted in huge law suits); I though perhaps Dawn would like to see an account of what actually happens on college campuses when women go to school authorities to complain.
Here's a story about a girl who felt uncomfortable being around a man she had initially befriended (but who her friends rejected). She went to complain that his continued efforts to see and speak with her were making her uncomfortable.
But, instead of asking him to leave her alone, the people in charge bullied the women to make a rape complaint against him - an entirely false rape complaint that the school was complicit in making.
Here it is, Dawn - here's what really happens on college campuses:
"The lawsuit claims that Brown employees pursued the complaint vigorously, pressing the student to divulge Mr. McCormick’s name and pressing her to add to her complaint. According to the lawsuit, at one point the student felt that the officials were “yelling at her” and that the ordeal was taking time away from sailing practice and studying for a chemistry test. Eventually, with the help of her resident coordinator, she wrote a statement asserting that Mr. McCormick had raped her."
This story is also being covered over at The Spearhead: Schools’ “Sexual Misconduct” Policies Starting to Trigger Lawsuits
I left a comment telling him that I love him.
Anon at 11:37: it might be better to call it her "outward manifestations" period. Only if the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a reasonable male would have understood she didn't consent can there be a rape conviction. You hit the nail on the head -- if she shows she's a voluntary participant, end of case. But because the states have eliminated the resistance requirement, if you have sex with a woman who just lays there, the states will call it rape.
sl, I was tipped off last week about the Brown case, and am writing something about the duress contract issue.
Archivist - ”sl, I was tipped off last week about the Brown case, and am writing something about the duress contract issue.”
I figured the story would come up here, but I did want Dawn, especially, to get a dose of reality. I’m not intending to be mean-spirited towards her, but rather to show her some concrete examples of what does happen WRT reports made by women at colleges. I this most recent case at Brown, there wasn’t even sex – in fact, there was no physical contact at all – yet, the women was pressured into fabricating an account of being raped.
This reality is diametrically opposed to what Dawn has previously posted here, reporting that she knew of women who had claimed that they were raped, but when they went to school authorities were warned not to report the alleged crimes. I think that Dawn has allowed herself to be seriously misguided on the issue, yet, she still is not afraid to come to this site and read (and sometimes even remark on) the accounts reported. I see a great deal of “promise” in young women who will at least take the time to consider the “other side of the story”.
And, for some further background to both this current case involving Brown University, as well as background on the responses by school authorities in handling the complaints of women, even back in 1996, far from trying to silence women who regretted sexual activities, they had already begun to elevate apparent consensual-turned-he-said-she-said incidents into serious crimes:
He said, she can't remember: the Adam Lack case
It should also be noted that after being accused of rape, Adam Lack also sued Brown University – which ended in a settlement where the woman who accused him admitted she had no reason to believe that Lack had actually raped nor that had he intended to rape her.
What this shows is that, contrary to what Dawn has been (mis)led to believe, colleges have long been actively seeking to “blow up” small misunderstandings and regrets about sex into serious rape charges.
When I was a college student back in the early 80's, students were required to attend "workshops" intended to build up in the minds of students the notion that any sex a woman wasn't comfortable with (with the implication that this included even days or weeks later - as in the Adam Lack case) could be considered to have been an act of rape. Women were also strongly encourage to report any such sex that they became uncomfortable with.
Obviously, it has long been the position of colleges to encourage rape accusations rather than trying to suppress them - making it seem more an more as if what Dawns friends have been telling her are likely outright lies about their alleged experiences in trying to report rapes at colleges. My personal guess is stories of being rebuffed from reporting are likely "cover" intended to explain why the woman in question never reported the account which she is now telling friends was a rape.
Something seems to have gone wrong with the link in my last post...
He said, she can't remember: the Adam Lack case
Anyone catch the first episode of Treme?
John Goodman plays the role of a Tulane professor, decrying the fact that civil engineering classes and the like are discontinued, while women's studies and black studies remain.
I can't quote from it exactly right now, so I'll refrain, but it's remarkable such raw truth and sarcasm wa allowed to be spoken out loud.
"if you have sex with a woman who just lays there, the states will call it rape."
Most men just call it marriage.
Seriously though, perhaps there shouldn't be a requirement of physical resistance, but there should be a requirement for obvious objection.
>> Snark permalink
April 20, 2010
Alex, I love you. No homo. That is all.
LOLOLOL. Snark you crack me up.
Alex truly is a hero to us all.
"Seriously though, perhaps there shouldn't be a requirement of physical resistance, but there should be a requirement for obvious objection."
A simple "no, not tonight" would be appreciated, ladies, as opposed to "sir, you're under arrest for rape" the next day.
In lots of relationships (my guess is, pretty much all long-term relationships) the couple has an understanding about how things are done. The feminist constuct would de-constructs those understandings and negate their validity by insisting that every time is like "the first" time for every couple. Some of that creepiness has found its way into the laws. The female ought to have some duty to say "no" or to lightly push the guy away -- isn't that common sense? And how on earth is that oppressive?
Imagine a couple married for 15 years where the husband is always the initiator, and if the wife isn't up to, she always tells him she's not up to it, and he always stops. Then one night he initiates, she doesn't say anything; nor does she resist. Technically, what is that? Sure doesn't make sense to call it rape, but to the sexual grievance industry, I fear that's as bad as a stranger sneaking in the house and raping the shit out of your wife. You should go to prison for 20 years and "hopefully," some of them might say, you'll become some brute's girlfriend. Then maybe you'll learn some respect for women.
Seriously, have we reached that stage? I sure as hell hope not, but sometimes I fear we have. The test for rape ought to be based on common sense in light of people's everyday experience, not some feminist's wet dream. And that common sense test should be the test we employ when we go to get some of this nonsense repealed.
Let’s get this straight: any woman who heads to an EI party as an anonymous onlooker, drinks five cups of the jungle juice, and walks back to a boy’s room with him is indicating that she wants sex, OK? To cry “date rape” after you sober up the next morning and regret the incident is the equivalent of pulling a gun to someone’s head and then later claiming that you didn’t ever actually intend to pull the trigger.
****
With one huge, glaring difference: going to the bathroom to have sex with a man is an every day event, not something inherently destructive like putting a gun to your head! To compare sex to exposing women to danger like that is pretty hysterical.
But the real issue is LIARS, not the finer meanings of what date rape is or isn't. There's not much point to discussing the outward manifestations of consent when SHE'S MAKING IT ALL UP, ANYHOW.
We must never, ever allow the debate to just drift from whether or not it happened to whether or not "it" was okay. That's allowing the feminazis to put the cart before the horse.
And as usual, the gays allow themselves to be tools of a feminist agenda that doesn't benefit them in any way, and only stirs up more division and resentment between men.
There is one sure-fire method a guy can use to know that a womam has given consent. I have practiced it each and every time I have had sex throughout my entire life, including within my marriage. It's simple, never place your penis inside a woman's vagina. Insist that SHE guide it as it goes in. Unless she decides to lie, it is then quite difficult for her to deny that she gave consent.
Only if the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a reasonable male would have understood she didn't consent can there be a rape conviction
That's why rape activists are pushing to eliminate the "reasonable man" requirement. They essentially argue that mens rea should be eliminated as an element of the crime of rape. In other words, you can commit rape regardless of your intent.
Archivist: Thanks for printing that, you saved me the trouble.
Feminists have no right or authority to define what rape is. We have thousands of years of custom and practise and I think that we all know what a real rape is.
"Unless she decides to lie, it is then quite difficult for her to deny that she gave consent."
That's an awfully big "unless".
"There's not much point to discussing the outward manifestations of consent when SHE'S MAKING IT ALL UP, ANYHOW."
Exactly.
The problem isn't that men need a "sure-fire" way to know that we have consent. The problem is women lying -- there is no way to protect yourself from false rape accusations; not even total abstinence.
False rape accusations are the elephant in the living room of every American man's life, and when we try to rationalize that elephant by saying "if only we don't drink or have one night stands, we won't be falsely accused" or "if we let her guide it in, we won't be falsely accused" we are just helping to normalize our pro-liar, anti-male society.
Men have every right to expect not to be accused of or charged with rape, unless they have committed a rape; and this is true no matter what his behavior. Anything less is settling for second class citizen status.
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