Now, tell me, ladies -- tell me how the hell I'm supposed to feel when I read about a book like the one quoted below? Tell me how this squares with my work as one of the few people in America writing objectively about the problem of false rape claims? And no matter what you tell me, tell me how I can believe you?
In Little White Lies, Deep Dark Secrets, Susan Shapiro Barash explains how women "tell all sorts of lies," and for women, lying is a way of life. It's also perfectly understandable -- and really not their fault:
"A woman's lies to friends, children, husband, lover, adult siblings, and co-workers are societally induced -- it's a tool used when we're missing out, when the life we dreamed of eludes us, when the going gets tough. It's interesting how a woman recognizes a lie coming from another woman (men often miss the lie, as do children, especially sons) and often endorse the behavior. Unless a woman's lie deliberately hurts another woman, it's as if we all belong to the same club, where the expedience of our lies proliferate and rule the day."
The last sentence makes my skin crawl. A male commentator at Amazon.com said this: "The interesting thing is the amorality of the writer and the female deceivers."
And you feminists think it's fair that a gender of expert liars can send an innocent man to prison on the basis of her uncorroborated word?
I am going to be citing this book in my arguments against the corroboration rule from now on. The tone in the quote above that seeks to understand the culture of lying is almost celebratory. The suggestion that it's OK to lie if only a male is hurt by it is morally grotesque. To say that all this is off-putting to someone concerned about false rape claims is a gross understatement. Unfortunately, that quote mirrors a culture that manifests itself on this site day in and day out -- where the truth is held hostage to a woman's selfish need to lie for the sake of expediency, often at a terrible cost to innocent men and boys.
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I understand your frustration but this is going to bring the "women are liars" out of the woodwork.
Yep. This is a smoking gun.
Nice find.
Since men do not revel in lying, a woman's word in a rape accusation should be automatically disbelieved, until evidence can be provided.
This should be the case anyway, but here is further proof.
Anon at 4:30: I didn't write the book, you know.
Now, do I think it's a serious study about the frequency of female lying? Of course not.
It is, however, entirely consistent with a culture that manifests itself on this site day in and day out, where the truth is held hostage to selfish expediency, often at great expense to men.
There is no question in my mind that women, who are more verbal and have superior interpersonal skills, are better liars than men. But to justify lying as understandable, and to couch that justification as a woman's issue -- well, sorry, that's fair game here.
You'd never see a similar book written with that tone about men lying. Any book that celebrated male lying, especially to women, would be denounced by pretty much everyone as disgusting and misogynistic.
Snark, I think the rule should be that no rape claim should even get to trial on the basis of an uncorroborated assertion. If the accused offers some proof that she consented to sex -- even his own sworn statement -- then the burden should shift back to the prosecution to produce sufficient corroborating evidence.
Yeah, enough is enough. The risk to innocent men is too great.
But there's liars, and then there's LIARS. Most women who lie will never end up like Crystal Mangum.
In general, I'm skeptical of the argument that women are inherently more deceitful than men. The problem is that women have far more opportunities to falsely accuse than men do. But if men who make up false rape accusations and get away with it, I think that there would be plenty of male false accusers out there.
Archivist: I agree. The only ultimate solution is to require corroboration and timely reporting.
The modern American "gender feminist hysteria machine" serves many purposes. Most, if not all, American politicians can now cater to the hysteria machine and get elected...without addressing any real issues.
4:54: . . . and a statute of limitations for all acquaintance rape cases. For stranger rape, it can be longer, but there needs to be a cutoff.
Anon at 4:53, I agree with you that men would make their share of false rape claims, too, if they could get away with it. But they can't, so we'll never know for sure.
I do think men are easier to read. Lots of women have the interpersonal shit down pat.
Small children will lie, as a goal seeking ploy, whether to avoid a punishment or to avoid a chore.
Small children have no power. That is why they lie.
Small children who are male and grow up to be men learn not to lie.
Other boys teach them this.
Small children who are female and grow up to be women do not learn not to lie.
Other girls teach them this.
If you think boys in a schoolyard can be cruel to other boys, you haven't got a clue just how casually cruel girls in a schoolyard can be to other girls.
Women grow up to lie, because for them it is a perfectly normal and perfectly acceptable, least effort, least energy, goal seeking behaviour.
====================
There is only one thing wrong with what I said above.
It should all be qualified with the noun "western", as in western men, western boys.
In other cultures, guess what, boys grow up pretty much the same.
Girls however do not, girls grow up more like western boys, MORE EQUALITY, equally discouraged from goal seeking via lies.
Enabling women to lie, is kinda like letting children lie, you can if you want, or you don't have to.
But when the legal system enables and fosters a culture of lying in the area of false rape accusations...that borders "systemic perversion", and i believe it nearing un-constitutional.
@ Archivist.
I disagree, I have known plenty of men who have lied about plenty of things.
With the sole exception of the junkies and psychopaths, every single man I have ever met will talk about a given lie and admit that telling the lie made him feel like shit, and it is ALL OVER his body language.
Women on the other hand, will claim they regret telling a lie, but the only thing that is ALL OVER their body language is anger at the fact that you dared to call them on it.
Think about it, you will see I was right...
small kid breaks a window, small kid is asked about it, small kid is sheepish, avoiding eye contact, and digging one toe into the ground.
are you thinking "small kid" is male or female??? (rhetorical question)
small kid breaks a window, small kid is asked about it, small kid looks you in they eye, smiles, and says they did not do it.
are you thinking "small kid" is male or female? (rhetorical question)
I guess you can't believe me, if you've already decided that women are liars, but I am a woman who is not a liar. Most of my female friends, just like most of my male friends, are not liars. A small percentage of my male and female friends are liars, but I'd say similar numbers.
Granted, this is only personal experience, but it seems about as valid as the quote you mentioned.
Additionally, the individuals I associate with are highly educated, and in the range of 24-35 years old, so I don't have much experience with individuals outside that range, other than with parents, professors, and family friend, of course.
In Little White Lies, Deep Dark Secrets, Susan Shapiro Barash explains how women "tell all sorts of lies," and for women, lying is a way of life.
It's exactly what I've always said but like all females Ms Barash doesn't understand herself or the real reason why females lie so she gives the reason as, because we feel left out". Of course it's nonsense and the fact of the matter is the female has absolutely no insight into why she behaves the way she does anymore than a dog knows why it barks;or perhaps she's lying in this too. The actual reason that females lie and behave in an erratic manner, especially around men, is clearly a primitive survival mechanism. The female is physically weaker and intellectually inferior to the male and this is nature's strategy of balancing things to ensure her survival. And before some mangina starts stamping his foot and protesting what I just wrote he should consider why no great idea has ever come from the mind of the female. Go ahead, name one. Sure, females can memorise well which is why they can study and succeed as a lawyer or doctor for example but these areas only require a good memory not the real ability to reason or for abstract thinking. Females have existed on earth as long as the male yet in all that time have never come up with any sort of philosophy or plan to make the world a more organised and less chaotic place with a sense of justice and law.A female's sense of justice is whatever happens to be to her advantage at any particular time and she does not understand general principles. Personally I believe that certain neural pathways for higher moral thought are blocked in the female brain because having them would not be an aid to her survival or that of her child since the female's basic function in nature is to produce the next generation. There is no such thing as equality between the intellectual and thinking male and the more primitive female mind.The female only manages to fuction within a man's world because we created an artificial protected environment with special rules and benefits for them.And even in this environment a female will lie or try to place the blame on someone or something else when she makes an error and may be held accountable for it. It's just her nature no matter how much she is conditioned from childhood in morality. She doesn't really understand it all and only behaves a certain way due to conditioning.
Well, Marie Curie wasn't dumb.
As to the "wommin r weeker" thing...
yeah, long ago, but darwinian evolution adapts frighteningly fast, 20 years or a single generation is enough.
Yanks have a saying.
God Made Man, but Colonel Colt made men equal.
As we see from the 49 y.o. female domestic violence activist who just shot her 29 y.o. husband of 5 days, (and feminist law changes) the old brute strength gender inequality is a thing of the past.
a woman driving a suburban can shift as much weight as a man, more than a wild west wagonmaster, faster than a whole wild west wagon train.
Ransom E Olds wasn't a woman though.
Amanda, I certainly don't think that.
This sort of writing, although jarring, is very typical when it comes to women's issues -- treating something that ought to be condemned as understandable and seeking to explain it or to rationalize it -- as I say, in an almost celebretory manner. I could give lots of examples of that -- I have an article in front of me about a woman who writes how she falsely accused a young man of rape. We're supposed to be understanding. You see, for me this is especially loathsome because in the false rape realm, as another commentator wrote, the legal system enables false accusers and fosters a culture of lying.
No, I hsve zero tolerance for women who think it's OK to lie except if a lie hurts another woman.
Afor: All those things that you mentioned that a woman could do could also be done by a child. A child can drive a suburban or shoot a gun.And let's remember that all of these things were invented by men. Females(and children) can use all of men's inventions including a computer and internet(mostly to shop, gossip and annoy people on men's blogs lol)
And btw Madame Curie was working under the direction of her husband until he died in an accident. However, let's say that she was the exceptional woman and she figured out a way of isolating radium from pitchblend. This is really no different and takes the same pattern of thinking as baking a cake, only to the Nth degree and is by no means equal to a man who developes a general system of laws about life and the universe.
Yeah, Amanda, this quote, taken by itself, doesn't prove anything.
But it's symptomatic. That's the point. I don't think every woman is a liar. I'll even be charitable enough to say that I don't think women are inherently more deceitful than men.
But are women encouraged to lie for their own gain? Most certainly. And they are given all manner of opportunities to do so, and provided with all manner of rationalisations to protect their egos afterwards.
This is simply a smoking gun. A woman who not only admits that this is the case, but is encouraging it. Encouraging women to lie for their own sake.
Anonymous at 6:02, absolute nonsense.
Well mom also told me the secret how normal it is to lie for sucsess.I don't lie much otherwise as a male,but already used it once to get a job and all was well.
But i am gonna tell you this give power to any gender or a person in this world and he will abuse it,especially if he can get away.
Though it is not certain that he will abuse it,but there exists a higher chance that he will if there will be no consequnces
What about filing a lawsiut against this author for saying all women lie. I don't. She is slandering me personally. Any one of you lawyers want to represent me?
CBGirl
It's one of those libels that nobody believes, CB Girl, so it's not legally actionable.
"The female is physically weaker and intellectually inferior to the male and this is nature's strategy of balancing things to ensure her survival."
I wouldn't say that women were intellectually inferior to men, but rather that their intellects are employed for different purposes.
For example, you won't find many women as recipients of Fields Medals, but then again, you won't find many women in jail for decades for crimes they didn't commit on the word of a man either.
Controlling who gets jailed and who lives free is just as powerful an accomplishment as winning elite prizes - arguably better, going by all the statistics evidencing the higher standard of living that women generally enjoy.
Yes, women lie more than men. They are better actors on average (and acting is at heart deception). But that only matters if you consider sincerity a more admirable quality than survival. As a man, I do, and I know my life is a more serene and less complicated one because of it - but that's also because as a man I value serenity. Women don't. They love mayhem, drama and emotional roller-coasting.
Men and women are so different that it's amazing we manage to get on as reasonably well as we do. Differences between races in the past have often resulted in massacres, but I know of no mass killing of one sex by the other (yet). Remember, as duplicitous as many women can be, they are well aware of their sister's natures.
Listen, men are just like women, without the drama.
It's one of those libels that nobody believes, CB Girl, so it's not legally actionable.
Too bad Pierce. We 'normal' women need to take these feminist pigs down. It won't work if men try to do it, it must be done by women.
CBGirl
Whether either gender lies more is moot.
At issue should be our culture's willingness to ascribe greater inherent honesty to women than to men.
This is the real prejudice.
Hey -- does anybody know anything about this second Roethlisberger accuser? What's her name and does she have prior accusations?
The Steelers suggested it was nothing but they haven't dropped it yet. The woman has not been named, of course. It would be so great if she were prosecuted if they determine it was false.
"At issue should be our culture's willingness to ascribe greater inherent honesty to women than to men."
"This is the real prejudice."
Brillian, Gwallan.
Archivist said,
But it's symptomatic. That's the point. I don't think every woman is a liar. I'll even be charitable enough to say that I don't think women are inherently more deceitful than men.
But are women encouraged to lie for their own gain? Most certainly. And they are given all manner of opportunities to do so, and provided with all manner of rationalisations to protect their egos afterwards.
This is simply a smoking gun. A woman who not only admits that this is the case, but is encouraging it. Encouraging women to lie for their own sake.
Yes, this is the point. I welcome a book that addresses lying among women. I would think we're well overdue for such an examination, especially one focusing upon false rape accusations and perhaps delving extensively into the fallout society is now reaping for protecting women from being held responsible for their actions.
This book is just one more attempt to relieve women from all acountability....another push to pronounce the impossible; that women are superior, strong and empowered....yet somehow still incapable of things such as honesty or any degree of self-control.
I'm sure that, while the author applauds and defends women who lie, any man will be promptly maligned and vilified for indulging in identical behavior.
I agree with Kim. That was a great quote from Archivist. ;)
gwallan said...
Whether either gender lies more is moot.
At issue should be our culture's willingness to ascribe greater inherent honesty to women than to men.
This is the real prejudice.
Mar 5, 2010 8:58:00 PM
Truer words werernever spoken.
Personally? I would be a big, fat liar to say I am not a liar.
Everybody here has lied.
Without exception.
I'm in sales. I lie all the time. 99.9% of the time I'm telling them something they WANT to hear.
"Do I look fat?" - how many of you say "yes, get your ass on a diet and a little weight training would help, too".
This is a though provoking discussion that needs to be taken seriously.
Let's see how this turns out but I can onlt guess lol These guys seem to be the targets of every wacko female around.
A college student has accused Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexually assaulting her early yesterday at a Georgia nightclub, authorities said.
The alleged assault against the 20-year-old victim took place in the Capital City bar in Milledgeville, police said.
Roethlisberger's agent, Ryan Tollner, said the quarterback spoke to police about "an allegation" after "Ben and his friends met a group of women and everyone mingled together throughout the evening." He has not been charged.
Last year, Roethlisberger was hit with a claim of sexual abuse.
ap
ROETHLISBERGER Faces second allegation.Andrea McNulty, an employee at Harrah's Lake Tahoe, filed a civil suit against the Super Bowl champ, alleging that in July 2008, while he was attending a celebrity golf tournament, he lured her to his room and raped her in the penthouse suite.
"Ms. McNulty feared that since he was a football player, he could or would physically harm her if she attempted to fight him," the suit said.
McNulty did not file a charge with cops.
The Steelers star denies her allegations and has countersued.
Roethlisberger's agent said yesterday that "obviously, given the prior accusation against Ben, we are skeptical of motive, but we will continue to cooperate."
"At issue should be our culture's willingness to ascribe greater inherent honesty to women than to men."
Is it that our culture thinks of women are more honest, or as more human? It seems that women are always thought of as little angels -- even when they behave like Crystal Mangum -- and of men as animals, or at least potential animals.
From today's NY post:
A Morningside Heights man went to move his SUV from a street in his neighborhood yesterday only to find it had been trashed -- with the words "Cheater" and "Rapist" scrawled on it in orange spray paint.
The vandals had also flattened three tires of Ed Robinson's Ford Expedition on LaSalle Street and left four golf-ball-size holes in the windshield.
Robinson, 34, said he was in "shock" but didn't explain much about what could have prompted the attack.
"There was a situation, and I guess some people had some hard feelings. But there was nothing to that," he said.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/vandalism_just_car_sick_Mbdnf7Ru3ZhjSfiouD0efJ#ixzz0hQ3Mi9UP
"you are getting the better end of the stick.. don't fool yourself about all this crap..."
Who is the 'you'?
You say that 'we' are getting the 'better end of the stick' because, in your view, rape is underreported.
But how does that help me, or any of the other regular posters here, none of whom are rapists?
It's VILE that you separate all of humanity into two camps - rapists (men) and victims (women).
Truly VILE.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what a black-and-white worldview looks like. This specimen thinks that 'we' benefit from women being raped.
Except, this site simply exists to draw attention to the fact of false rape accusations - the REAL underreported crime.
Why are trolls so unable to separate out the TWO different crimes of rape, and false rape accusation?
There is no 'better end of the stick' when EITHER crime is taking place.
The Archivists have stated MULTIPLE times that they are anti-rape just as much as they are anti-false rape accusations. The two positions are hardly mutually exclusive - does it make sense to say that, because I'm anti-theft, I am in favour of people making false accusations of theft? Or that, being anti-false theft accusations, I support theft?
The only one who thinks that opposing the two crimes is mutually exclusive, is YOU - and that is because you are a vile human being.
Enabling womens violence, and enabling women to lie to our law enforcement system with impunity..."IS A PERVERSION OF THAT SYSTEM."
Perversion begets perversion. If one wants to temper the perversion of society and turn it away from falling into "Total Raunch culture"..then one needs to challenge the anti-male perversion at its roots. (For perversion begets perversion).
Break the gender feminist / law enforcement misinformation Alliance.
Why are there porn links in anon Mar 3:58 and 3:59. Although I am a fan of porn, I doubt that's appropriate for a serious site as this. Pierce, I would recommend removing those comments.
--BB
Dear Friends.
The Porn link I gave you ALL.. was not about PORN.. in as such as we all like porn... like you sir; but that a woman being used in Real Time....
I find it Interesting you asked for it to be taken down.
What are you afraid of, i might ask? It look some pondering for me to accept this and "Look" at what was going on in it.
it is not something i want to watch and get turned on by or think of when having sex with my girlfriend.
I just felt a bit different after being shown it. do as you wish, i do not think you are helping the male gender by what i have read here, and on that Womens site, i am just not sure what good you are doing for us?? both your commentors and OP's.
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