Tuesday, January 5, 2010

Almost every female and male college student has engaged in consensual but unwanted sex - why is it 'rape' only when it happens to her?

In answer to the title of this post: it isn't rape in either situation, but extreme feminism wrongly insists it is rape when it happens to her.

Let's look at the facts: "The odds a female college student has ever engaged in consensual but unwanted sexual activity are 1 in 1.03, or 97%, and for men the odds are similarly high: 1 in 1.07, or 93%. Reasons for consensual but unwanted sex run the gamut from enticement, to inexperience to, believe it or not, altruism. In other words, obligation, or pity sex." See here

According to this source, college men are about equally as likely to engage in unwanted but consensual sex as college women, yet you would have to look long and hard to find a single instance of a college guy attempting to transmogrify such experience into rape.

In contrast, extreme feminism outright urges college women to classify such experiences as rape.

Ever hear feminists urge college men to cry rape for unwanted sex? Of course not. Because they wouldn't buy the stats listed above. They would never accept the notion that men are "raped," under their definition, at the same pace as women are "raped." But the stats have the ring of plausibility. To suggest that men always want to have sex is to equate them with rutting beasts of the field. (Given the average feminist's view of men, this probably explains why they think males are largely incapable of being "raped.")

The fact is, feminists are right about the men -- it is not rape -- and wrong about the women, it's not rape for them, either. To classify consensual but unwanted sex as "rape" trivializes actual rape, which is an intrusive bodily invasion where one human being strips another human being of his or her dignity by using the latter as a sexual plaything.

____________________

Actual rape has nothing to do with a voluntary sexual act. One of the running pet peeves of this site is extreme feminism's wild constriction and rewriting of the definition of "consent" when it comes to rape. Extreme feminism seeks to render non-consensual certain sexual relations voluntarily entered into. We are not referring to the situation where the woman was so drunk that she was incapable of rationally deciding to have sex. That's rape. We are not referring to the situation where the woman says "yes" only because the man has a gun to her head, or is threatening to harm her child. That's rape.

We are referring to situations where the woman has a real choice as to whether she can have sex, and she voluntarily assents to do so. Extreme feminism would make it "rape" any time a woman's choice to refuse sex is even mildly unpleasant. Reread that sentence again, because this is what we've come to in the gender wars.

If the female voluntarily agrees to have sex after initially being unwilling to do so, it is a good bet extreme feminism would classify that as rape. Thus, young women are being wrongly taught that sex induced by a male's verbal cajoling without physical threat is rape. They are being wrongly taught that rape occurs in the absence of a woman's "enthusiastic" consent, as if "enthusiasm" can be measured in any objective sense, and as if otherwise perfectly lawful but not necessarily "enthusiastic" consent is somehow legally inoperative. They are being wrongly taught that sex after a woman takes any alcohol or drugs invariably negates the woman's ability to validly consent, regardless of whether the alcohol or drugs rendered her unable to make a rational decision.

The fact is, men and women in a committed relationship do things for each other with regularity out of love and sometimes, perhaps often, without all that much enthusiasm (some people rarely express "enthusiasm" about anything, you know). And, yes, sometimes they do it only after some cajoling. When a woman is trying to get pregnant, her partner often has sex out of obligation even when it's not convenient and often when he is not especially "enthusiastic." Despite the male gender's reputation for wanting sex 24/7, sometimes it takes some cajoling. Has he been "raped" since he gave into her cajoling without being "enthusiastic"? No sane person would say he has. And it has to work the same when the genders are reversed.

A woman sometimes fakes both "enthusiasm" and orgasms -- oh, horrors! -- often because a couple's sex drives are not in sync and because she's more interested in fostering their long-term relationship than insuring that her every sexual experience is gratifying. And believe it or not, sometimes men fake it for the same reason.

"Consent" does not lend itself to a rigid definition, because human relationships in the area of romance and sexuality are often complex with literally a limitless number of possible scenarios that defy tying everything up in a nice, neat package. The only valid test is that a person in the position of the defendant (almost always the male) would reasonably understand that there was actual consent. When a woman embraces her partner and prepares for intercourse in the absence of threat of physical force, consent is present, regardless of whether every radical feminist stomps her foot and insists it isn't.

Most extreme, young women are sometimes being taught that statutory definitions of rape must yield to a woman's own experience -- thus, men somehow must mold their conduct to fit an amorphous, free-floating, moving target of a subjective and secret whim of a woman's "experience," including, presumably, her after-the-fact, ex-post facto, false and belated hissy fits of regret about having engaged in intercourse. The fact that such a standard, with all it Star Chamber ramifications, furnishes no guidance to the male as to what constitutes "rape" prior to the act is not at all troubling to the enlightened feminists proffering this standard. Due process be damned. Rape occurs when they say it does, regardless of whether it actually did. And that draconian, viciously misandric standard is really what some of them are after.

If feminists wanted to assist young women, instead of feeding them misinformation in an attempt to have them invent rape from whole cloth, they would teach them that it has now been proven by objective evidence that women experience greater after-the-fact remorse than men about one-night stands. This would encourage young women to think twice before engaging in such encounters and about falsely crying rape afterwards. But, of course, the feminists accuse anyone of making suggestions that might hold young women responsible for their actions as "victim blaming" -- a magic incantation they blithely toss off in an attempt to keep young women in a state of perpetual infancy, freed of any responsibility for their actions when it comes to sex. Young women need not be free moral agents when it is acceptable to place all the responsibility on the male.

So, you want to constrict the definition of consent, ladies? Fine. Open the women's jail cells because under your definition, men are being "raped" with abandon. Sounds ridiculous? Now you know how we feel when you say it.

54 comments:

Snark said...

Hear hear! Another great piece from the FRS.

"Due process be damned. Rape occurs when they say it does, regardless of whether it actually did. And that draconian, viciously misandric standard is really what some of them are after."

Yes. It is. I think perhaps they are mentally unwell, and for this reason unfit to hold the positions of power which they do.

slwerner said...

Anther great piece!

Had one-time, and apparently short-term poster Dawn chosen to post more of her "stories" of rampant college rape (and subsequent institutional cover-ups), I had intended to bring up the distinct probability that at least 1-in-4 college women engaged in regrettable sex - but, that the mere fact that they would have regretted what they chose to do did not equate to their having been raped by any stretch of the imagination.

Interesting to learn that it's actually 97% - and, even more surprising to learn that 93% of men report the same experience (I knew some men had, but I didn't realize that it happened so often). Perhaps men simply don't verbalize regret as often, nor do they feel it as deeply, as do women.

And, thanks for the link to those stats. They should prove an invaluable resource.

Anonymous said...

A woman sometimes fakes both "enthusiasm" and orgasms -- oh, horrors! -- often because a couple's sex drives are not in sync and because she's more interested in fostering their long-term relationship than insuring that her every sexual experience is gratifying. And believe it or not, sometimes men fake it for the same reason.

This is... "interesting"...

I'm not sure how a man can "fake" an ejaculation of semen, but, of course, this is just a question of stimulus.

At the risk of generalising from me to all men...

We are talking about orgasm, and yes, I have done "charity fucks" and "drunk" (me) fucks, where it was basically a lot of work to orgasm.

(guys will be familiar with the brewers droop syndrome)

I can contrast that to having sex with someone I care about and am close to, and it takes less work to orgasm.

which brings up an interesting question...

the difference between "making love" and having a fuck is the amount of work I put in to it.

the more work, the more the sense of relief, the less the sense of pleasure.

don't get me wrong, I enjoy sex, a lot, but reading the feminist ideals, I start to get the idea that maybe I have always been raped, because I have never had some sort of enlightened out of body nirvana moment of bliss and oneness with all.

so, I am starting to wonder (since guys are not exposed to this sort of propoganda) if in fact the root problem here is totally unrealistic and fantasy descriptions of the sex act.

I'm thinking of the elusive and illusory G spot.

I'm also thinking of two women I have known who had full blown orgasms during childbirth, despite the pain.

Is this the other side of the feminist coin?

Lack of some unattainable sexual nirvana is the fault of your (male) sexual partner?

AfOR

Anonymous said...

Faulty and inflamatory missinformation about the true percentages of false rape acussations (it's not 2%)..gives the "gender feminist community" a "disproportionate" amount of sway over campus politics and campus culture.
The only ones who are safe from gender feminist hate speech are the GLBT community.

Anonymous said...

College sex is not safe for men.

A college campus is not safe for men.

Pierce Harlan said...

Men fake it, too

Anonymous said...

1. About To Lose It: A boner is a delicate thing. Even more fragile than his manhood is his ego. So, if he feels like he’s about to unfortunately go down, he pretends he’s going down in a blaze of glory.
2. Running On Empty: He, uh, took care of business by himself earlier. And now that he’s having sex with something other than his hand—well, trying to—he just doesn’t have it in him to work overtime.
3. Not Into It: Sound familiar, ladies?
4. Sleeping Booty: He’s exhausted. He needs to rest more than just his weary head.
5. Player On A Stage: Performance anxiety can get the best of a man who might not be that experienced, is extra neurotic, or even someone who has been out of the game for a while. The pressure to impress you might just make him implode instead of explode. He could simply want to just get it over with. We have a sneaking suspicion that with a guy like this, some TLC and practice will make perfect.
6. Bored Stiff: Well, the opposite, actually. The doin’ it is dull. As we all know, going through the motions does not put the sex in sexy. Don’t forget, your biggest erogenous zone isn’t in your pants, it’s your brain. Like a delicious taco, you’ve gotta spice it up! Put on a show when you strip down, talk dirty, try a new place that isn’t a bed ... girl, I know you can get creative!

well I never...

speaking from personal experience, that is what I meant by working your way through it.

to date, it has always worked

AfOR

Georgia Girl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I thought GG was banned for incessantly trolling this site a long time ago.

Why is she still here?

Georgia Girl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Georgia Girl said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
slwerner said...

GG - "How come you omitted coercion, fear, laced drinks, etc? Based on 97%, a campus of 1000 females translates into THIRTY rapes per year."

For the record, Pierce didn't compile the stats (did you somehow miss the very first link?).

And, while the other stat's are sourced, I didn't see where you provided and back-up for what you posted. Is that because there is none?

GG - "Consensual but unwanted sex does not "trivialize" rape. It IS rape. It IS an intrusion that strips a woman of her dignity."

Correction: "Calling Consensual but unwanted sex "rape" trivializes (real) rape. And, regrets over consensual unwanted sex, are not limited to women.

GG, your reading comprehension seems to have gotten much worse. Try it again, and try letting the words - all the words - sink in.

that would include parts like: "and for men the odds are similarly high: 1 in 1.07, or 93%." & "They would never accept the notion that men are "raped," under their definition"

Snark said...

Haha, she thinks that consensual sex can be rape.

Rape, which is sex where there is not consent.

Do you still wonder why sites like this exist? Run along now, silly little girl.

The Archivist said...

Forget the "regardless" part. Rational decisions cannot be made after consuming alcohol or drugs ... PERIOD.


Yeah GG, the only problem is, this only applies to women. Men who have been drinking or doing drugs are still held accountable.


Consensual but unwanted sex does not "trivialize" rape. It IS rape. It IS an intrusion that strips a woman of her dignity..


That is complete and utter bullshit. If if is consensual, it is NOT rape. It is sex. So long as there is consent, it is NEVER rape. It IS NOT an intrusion if she consents. PERIOD.

Intrusion: entrance by force or without permission or welcome

If she consents to sex, then there IS permission. Therefore, it isn't rape.

Please, peddle that crap somewhere else.

Archivist said...

Thanks, slwerner.

She's banned. No more putting up with her buffoonery. We can't have a civil discussion with someone who is so purposefully dense and hateful. If it's consensual, it's not rape except to the screeching misandric banshees like that. Lots of falsely accused men and their loved ones read this site, and I'm not going to have entertain some dimwit accusing my readers of rape.

How many times must we explain that "unwanted" is a subjective state that has nothing to do with a woman's outward manifestations of assent? That latter is all that matters for rape.

She should go work for Mary Koss. She'd fit right in.

Archivist said...

See, Steve beat me to the punch.

Go back to hell, Georgia Girl. You are not welcome here. Your presence insults too many of our readers.

Anonymous said...

Rape hysteria is what gave the Klu-Klux-Klan all its power a hundred years ago.
Faulty and inflamatory missinformation about rape breeds Klan type violence / ignorance / and injustice to innocent men/boys.

slwerner said...

Snark, of GG - "she thinks that consensual sex can be rape."

What she and her Rape-culture feminist ilk fail to recognize is that declaring a girl waking up the next day, suddenly feeling guilty about what she freely chose to do, and crying rape so as to not have to admit her own mistake is one-and-the same as a woman being grabbed off the street, her clothes torn off of her, her being violently beaten and raped at knife-point, while fearing for her life; CERTAINLY DOES TRIVIALIZE RAPE.

The two are truly worlds apart, yet feminist insist they are the same thing.

And, they cannot fathom how ridiculous that is, and would declare anyone who dared to disagree a misogynistic "rape-apologist".

I think someone should alert GG's AA sponsor that she's fallen of he wagon again.

Archivist said...

slwerner, very well put.

I think the problem is that this whole cottage industry has erupted to promote concern for rape, and they seek to engorge their own importance by insisting that this other conduct is rape when it isn't. They tell lies to girls and make them think they were raped, and those girls go and destroy the boys with whom they had consensual sex. They are evil incarnate, and, yes, they do more damage to actual rape victims than any MRA could ever do.

Get it straight: this site is opposed to rape. But "unwanted" sex alone is not rape. Because "unwanted" is often accompanied by, "OK, let's do it" -- by BOTH men and women.

GG said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
slwerner said...

GG - "You buckle under pressure like a bunch of wimps, and then you continue to whine."

So, your definition of "buckling" is whenever someone calls you on your BS? Really, refutation=buckle? Are you even sober when you write such crap.

You posted absolute nonsense. Did you expect that it would NOT get refuted? Do you really expect that you can play the gender-card and force us to accept everything and anything you might happen to type?

You're the one who stated that consensual but unwanted sex was rape - same as if coerced by threat and brute force.

You may call it "whining", but I've actually laughing at the sheer stupidity of such a notion as you've proffered.

Snark said...

GG, you are a troll and a horrible human being.

You are a freak show and a neanderthal. Please just leave. People come here because they have been falsely accused of rape and gone through all kinds of shit, and you tell them that they deserved it.

Leave, and don't come back.

GG said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
GG said...

Snarkle, your shaming tactics are so transparent.

The Archivist said...

GG,

And so are yours. Please stop.

GG said...

If you'll lift the gag order for a moment, Arch, I want to repond to Slwerner.

Slwerner, unwanted sex is rape, but there are degrees of rape, which I have always acknowledged. Your examples include the mildest degree and the most severe.

The Archivist said...

unwanted sex is rape, but there are degrees of rape, which I have always acknowledged.


And this is the core of your problem. Unwanted isn't the same as forced. I can NOT want to have sex with my wife, but still do so. That isn't rape.

So long as there is consent, whether you want to have it or not, is NOT rape.

Anonymous said...

Georgia Girl

NO-ONE, and I mean NO-ONE, gives a flying fuck what *your* definitions of anything are, because you are clearly bat shit crazy.

The ONLY thing that is happening here is NO-ONE, and I mean NO-ONE is sitting by silently and giving you a free ride.

Your shit stinks.

get used to it

AfOR

GG said...

Sorry, I have to claw back when I'm being attacked.

Pierce Harlan said...

Georgia Girl: listen to what I am saying. If you are going to respond, respond to this, or not at all. "Unwanted" is a state of mind. For rape, all that matters are the woman's outward manifestations. If she ACTS as if she wants sex, if she SAYS "OK" or words that effect, it is not rape EVEN IF SEX WAS UNWANTED IN HER MIND.

Get it?

Anonymous said...

more caring females

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8442537.stm

A mother on trial for the murder of her brain-damaged son had tried to kill him before, London's Old Bailey has heard.

AfOR

Anonymous said...

GG and her Klan type mentality feed off faulty and inflamatory missinformation..and the klan the it foments.

slwerner said...

GG - "Slwerner, unwanted sex is rape, but there are degrees of rape, which I have always acknowledged. Your examples include the mildest degree and the most severe."

You miss the point entirely. My examples were of a non-rape and a violent rape. My point is that by using the one-word umbrella of "rape" you rape-culture feminists do not distinguish between non-rapes and the very most severe examples of rape - let alone various degree of actual rapes.

You destroy any credibility you might other wise have when you refuse to that unwanted (pressured, latter-regretted, or even pity sex) sex CAN occur, and occur with mutual consent of both parties at the time the act(s) occur. In no such circumstances has a raped occurred - no matter how hard the women might latter wish she had gone through with it.

Mary H said...

Calling consensual but unwanted sex “rape” should be used in the dictionary as the definition of “oxymoron”. All of us are guilty of doing something we are not proud of, but that does not give us the right to point the finger of blame, to ruin someone’s life. To condom girls/women doing this is beyond my comprehension! I am not naïve; I am a wife, mother, professional and someone who has experienced both ends of the rape issue. These types of comments are what trivialize my daughter’s rape and my son’s incarnation due to false charges. As far as consensual but unwanted sex being an intrusion that strips a woman of her dignity, the flirt, the alcohol, and approach, which comes before sex, diminished any dignity she might have once possessed.

GG said...

Yes, Pierce, I get what you're saying, but do you get the other side?

How do you reconcile "unwanted" sex? Where do you draw that fine line in cases where "he said, she said"? THAT's the whole controversy, is it not? Face it, most rapists are not penalized. I'm talking specifically (on topic) about fraternity men.

When it happened to me, I was unable to consent. My "outward" manifestations were zilch. Did I consent? uh... no

Was I wearing provocative clothing? No ... Very conservatively dressed.

Was I drinking? No

Was I ambushed. Absolutely.

POINT?? ... It doesn't matter if you are a rape victim or a victim of a false accusation, you definitely pay a heavy-duty penance.

GG said...

Also, our yard did not win first place in the neighborhood Christmas Tree Lighting contest. I guess my disdain shows.

Mary H said...

You must remember that in a false rape accusation you carry the burden of that, like the scarlet letter, with you through out your life. Think about the falsely accused that go for a job interview and the charges show up on their back ground check, how would you explain that? I am not down playing true rape "seize by force" but question the justification of an accusation made or a deep sense of guilt or possibly to just an egocentic personality.

randian said...

Extreme feminism would make it "rape" any time a woman's choice to refuse sex is even mildly unpleasant.

This idea that women must be protected from the merely unpleasant reminds me of an argument I've heard feminists offer with respect to childbirth, namely that refusing to subsidize motherhood via public funds constitutes unconscionable coercion to get an abortion.

Archivist said...

Again, "unwanted" is a state of mind. If that state of mind isn't manifested to the guy, it is meaningless.

Mary H said...

I think "provoked but unwanted" would be a better way of stating it. Still meaningless unless the guy is clairvoyant.

Nick S said...

"Slwerner, unwanted sex is rape, but there are degrees of rape, which I have always acknowledged. Your examples include the mildest degree and the most severe."

This sounds suspiciously like '[nearly] all heterosexual sex is institutionalized rape. There are just different degrees of rape.'

randian said...

I think "provoked but unwanted" would be a better way of stating it. Still meaningless unless the guy is clairvoyant.

Remember the guy who got convicted of rape because the girl (so she says) withdrew consent in her own mind without bothering to inform him? Seeing as how his conviction was upheld on appeal, it is indeed morally meaningless, but unfortunately not legally meaningless. Under that legal standard, knowing the woman didn't make a perceptible negation of consent is not enough for any man to feel safe in his sexual encounters. I presume the infliction of fear is intentional.

Anonymous said...

As there are different dgress of rape, are there or shouldn't there be different degrees of false rape/sexual assault accusations?

First degree; A FRA is made but nobody named or pointed out/found.

Second degree; A FRA is made, someone is named/ pointed out and arrested. The victim recants/admits to having made up the accusation for whatever reason before, the accused is jailed.

Third degree; A FRA is made, someone is arrested and jailed. The accused is forced to stay in jail until trial. Before,during or, after the trial the accuser recants/admits to lying/slips up and provides testimony/account that is not consistent in any manner with what the accuser told police and/or prosecutors. This might/should include; admitting to lying after the accused has been imprisoned but before the convicted person has served the sentence/penalty imposed upon them by a jury or the courts.

Degree four (the point of no return); The FRA recants/admits to lying/giving wrongfully testimony after the convicted person has served the sentence imposed upon them, has registered as a sex offender and, the staute of limitations for appeal have expired.

Anonymous said...

This degree of false accusations should also include other violent crimes for which a false accuser has made and caused harm to an innocent perosn.

Anonymous said...

"We are not referring to the situation where the woman was so drunk that she was incapable of rationally deciding to have sex. That's rape."

Is it?? If a woman was so drunk that she was incapable of deciding to drive a car, it's still her fault for drunk driving. As a society we hold everyone accountable for their drunk behavior, except when college women have sex. If a male student claimed he was "raped" after realizing that having sex with someone while drunk might have been a bad idea, how far do you think that would go?

Anonymous said...

Just trying to read this made my head hurt:

"Conceptualizing the 'Wantedness' of Women’s Consensual and Nonconsensual Sexual Experiences: Implications for How Women Label
Their Experiences With Rape"

www.sexscience.org/uploads/media/Peterson.pdf

Anonymous said...

Poor, poor GG, she is a victim, not a survivor.

Anonymous said...

This degree of false accusations should also include other violent crimes for which a false accuser has made and caused harm to an innocent perosn.

Any false accusation should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If anyone is accused, jailed, indicted, for a false arrest, everyone involved should be prosecuted including Law Enforcement (because if they truly did their jobs, they would find the truth)

BTW--GG- go f**k yourself!!!!

CBGirl

Anonymous said...

GG is a member of the gender feminist / law enforcement missinformation Alliance. This is a perversion of our justice system and must be stopped through education at the grass roots level.

GG said...

@Anon 7:09, you're half right.

... definitely a victim just like the rest of you, but I am also a flourishing survivor, which is my hope for all of you who are innocent.

@Anon 3:07, like the other Anon, you are only half right ... there are many things that should be taught at the "grass roots level".

CBGirl, that's class.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
This degree of false accusations should also include other violent crimes for which a false accuser has made and caused harm to an innocent perosn.

Any false accusation should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If anyone is accused, jailed, indicted, for a false arrest, everyone involved should be prosecuted including Law Enforcement (because if they truly did their jobs, they would find the truth)

BTW--GG- go f**k yourself!!!!

CBGirl

Jan 6, 2010 8:39:00 PM

I'm not GG. I'm too antifeminist to be GG.

Norm said...

you know, in one sense this can all be summed up as, "no means no" is a ridiculous idea. It is like people are schizophrenic - for example, those attending a women's studies class will act as if in a 'clean-room' environment and loudly proclaim, "if she says no it means no!!!"; but when those same women are in the heat of the moment with their dates, all that stuff goes out the window in an instant, and they say, "oh come on honey...I didn't really mean 'no'!!"

Then some of those women later claim they were raped. Ludicrous!!!

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Elija Fall said...

Rape culture took hold of a group of girls in my secondary school in London, UK. We are talking about 16 year old girls, without the background or hangups of extreme feminism, without the experience to even conceive of rape or the implications of making an accusation. Two of my close friends were lucky to escape accusations which the accusers admitted were false AFTER arrests had been made. The problem for the girls was, i believe, a lack of education and awareness about rape. If they had known the true horror of rape, its effect on families and victims and the effect of false accusation on a teenage boy, they would not have acted as they did. What was their motivation? Guilt, regret, and misandry.