Probation, her identity withheld, and she will have no record when it is all over and done with. Please explain again how this is deterrence for falsely accusing someone? Oh, sorry, she had to write a letter of apology. Yes, now that's real punishment. Can you think of any other crime where so much lip service is paid to its "seriousness," but nothing is done about it?
High school girl gets slap on wrist for false accusation
A high school girl who falsely reported she had been sexually assaulted by a classmate was put on 10 months probation Thursday in Sarnia court.
The 16-year-old pleaded guilty to making the false report to Sarnia police in the spring.
The girl and a male student went to a park near their school for consensual sexual activity before returning to school.
She later told police she had been assaulted by the boy.
A police investigation determined it was a false allegation but not before the boy was interviewed by police and the girl underwent a sexual assault examination at the hospital.
The girl admitted the allegation was false.
The girl's mental health issues played a large part in the false report, said defence lawyer Noelle Wright.
The boy had developmental issues but the girl did not take advantage of him during the incident, said Wright.
The "very disturbing" allegation was a difficult experience for the boy and caused a costly investigation, said assistant Crown attorney Aniko Coughlan.
Such false complaints undermine public trust in the justice system, said Justice Deborah Austin.
The girl apologized to the court.
Austin ordered the girl to write an apology to the boy and perform 40 hours of community service as repayment for the crime.
The letter must be delivered to her probation officer as she was ordered not to communicate with him, except for the letter.
Since the offence, the girl has left the area to receive mental health treatment.
Successful completion of the probation order will earn her a discharge that will leave her without a criminal record.
The discharge does not mean it was not a serious offence, said Austin.
The girl appreciates the seriousness of the offence, said Wright.
The Youth Criminal Justice Act prohibits publication of the girl's identity.Link: http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1750479
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17 comments:
"Such false complaints undermine public trust in the justice system, said Justice Deborah Austin. "
What!? How!?
What really undermines public trust is the fact that she committed a crime and gets to walk. Honestly...!
" The boy had developmental issues but the girl did not take advantage of him during the incident, said Wright."
Mmmhmm, whatever!
" The girl apologized to the court.
Austin ordered the girl to write an apology to the boy and perform 40 hours of community service as repayment for the crime. "
She apologized to the court (verbally?) but wrote an apology to the boy ,rather than physically apologize in person.
" The letter must be delivered to her probation officer as she was ordered not to communicate with him, except for the letter."
Probably as well as she could accuse him of something else equally or more serious.
" Since the offence, the girl has left the area to receive mental health treatment. "
Seems like she should receive some other type of treatment.
" Successful completion of the probation order will earn her a discharge that will leave her without a criminal record. "
" The discharge does not mean it was not a serious offence, said Austin. "
" The girl appreciates the seriousness of the offence, said Wright. "
A discharge without a criminal record? It must be nice. Would the accused get to enjoy the same had she not admitted to lying and allowed the case to go all the way to trial?
" The discharge does not mean it was not a serious offence, said Austin. "
It was a serious offense and should have been treated that way. What , if any lesson will she learn from this, that she can falsely accuse a man or boy of raping or sexually assaulting her and be let off easy?
" The girl appreciates the seriousness of the offence, said Wright. "
There are at least two ways this statement can be taken.
"The girl's mental health issues played a large part in the false report, said defense lawyer Noelle Wright.
The boy had developmental issues but the girl did not take advantage of him during the incident, said Wright."
It starting to happen like clock-work. Very soon we will be seeing in every single case where a woman is found to be lying about a sexual assault, she will automatically be diagnosed by here lawyer (and prosecutors and judges as well) to have some mental issues going on, that, in turn, will be claimed to suggest that she needs "help" not punishment.
Since when do lawyers diagnose mental issues (no offense intended, Pierce)?
In this case, we have a boy with known issues, diagnosed by health care professionals. But, of course, HIS issues are not to be considered, only HERS - because, as we all know (or should know since we've been beaten over the head constantly with it for 40 years), men and boys don't matter - only women and girls matter.
Sorry, AfOR, but just as I suggested in a recent thread, women's mental health issue - even BPD, and probably even PMS - are going to be routinely used to save evil, thoughtless, and purely self-interested women from having to suffer any real consequences when their caught in false rape lies that could harm men - up to and including their imprisonments and deaths.
Oh, but the poor little darling, she's a "deeply troubled women", and may have mental health issues! Boo Hoo! Let her lie on a couch in a comfortable office and shoot the sh*t with a court-appointed counselor for a hour every week instead of having to pay for her crime via incarceration.
Interesting that such "punishment" is never considered for men and boys - even those in "he said/she said" situations. If they get convicted, they're going to get really punished, and have to register as sex offenders until they die.
We wouldn't want women - any women - even those who make false rape charges or commit cold-blooded, premeditated murder to have to suffer such a heinous fate. Just men.
Enabling false rape accusers is a recent perversion of the law enforcement community.
It is a civil rights issue when law enforcement communities manufacture and cash in statistics for crimes against women, and get no funds for cashing in statistics foir crimes against men.
This dynamic leads to legal prejudices against innocent men/boys..and enables violent women.
Sorry, AfOR, but just as I suggested in a recent thread, women's mental health issue - even BPD, and probably even PMS - are going to be routinely used to save evil, thoughtless, and purely self-interested women from having to suffer any real consequences when their caught in false rape lies that could harm men - up to and including their imprisonments and deaths.
Look, we have to deal with FACTS, whether or not we like them.
I *strongly* suspect that there will be a *very* high correlation between false accusers and mental health problems.
So what?
I'm sure there is a very high correlation between car-jackers (or any other sector of crime) and mental health issues.
car jackers do not get a get out of jail free card, so why should false accusers.
IMHO we need to PROMOTE investigation into the false accuser / mental health link, because by doing so it gives us the PERFECT wedge to split them from "womankind" soft and fluffy, everyone has a mum, treat them with kid gloves bullshit.
Oi, Nifong, why are you giving women a free ride when they commit crime?
turns into
Oi, Nifong, why are you giving lunatics a free ride when they commit crime?
I'd MUCH rather walk into court and demand EQUAL rights with a fucking lunatic than demanding equal rights with a woman... think about it..
Are you in this game to play whatever moves it takes to win? Or are you in this game to try to win by only playing a limited set of moves?
AfOR
AfOR - "Are you in this game to play whatever moves it takes to win? Or are you in this game to try to win by only playing a limited set of moves?"
The empirical evidence at this point in time seems to be showing (quite strongly) that raising the potential that a woman has some mental issues serves to allow her to escape any real punishment.
Remember Hofstra rape hoaxer Danmell Ndonye? A typical college women, engaging in all too typical sexual self-actualization?
Well, also recall that all Kathleen Rice used to justify her decision to give Ndonye a deferred judgment was her (Kathleen Rice, not a mental health professional) suggestion that Ndonye was "deeply troubled".
In the article above, we're seeing it once again. The liar's lawyer suggests that she might have some mental health issues, and BINGO!, she walks away with 40 hours of community service, having to write out an apology, and some therapy sessions.
The plainly obvious fact is that the mere suggestion that a false accuser suffers from some sort of mental health issue IS being used to allow them to escape punishment.
This is not to say that (some of) these women do not suffer from mental health issues, but rather that even the slightest possibility that a mental health issue might exist is allowing for them to "walk".
It's a "loophole" that must be closed if we are ever to realize a deterrent effect by punishing false accusers. I'm afraid that dwelling too much on the mental state of false accusers is an invitation for it to be used by their apologists to spare them from ever realizing any tangible punishment due to their chosen actions.
slwerner, I look at it like this.
1/ In all the cases you mention, no-one is actually arguing that these women lied.
2/ In all the cases you mention, everyone is invoking the mental health card to avoid a real sentence.
Occam.
It is therefore the ACT OF INVOCATION of the mental health card that is the key fact.
If you can show that false rape accusers have mental health issues, just like "regular" male criminals, it disarms them, of course you have mental health issues, THAT is why your are in the dock.
ALL of these "poor troubled woman" invocations ONLY work on the presumption that, Your Honour, what we are dealing with here is a single, lone, isolated, almost random event.
Car-jackers CANNOT escape penitentiary by claiming that this was a one off event from a troubled young man, simply because ALL these "excuses" have been used so often in the past that they are now powerless.
follow?
AfOR
AfOR - "ALL of these "poor troubled woman" invocations ONLY work on the presumption that, Your Honour, what we are dealing with here is a single, lone, isolated, almost random event.
Car-jackers CANNOT escape penitentiary by claiming that this was a one off event from a troubled young man, simply because ALL these "excuses" have been used so often in the past that they are now powerless.
follow?"
I follow. Your logic is sound...until you apply it to women. Carjackers don't get off because they have mental health issues nor because they've only done it once. This follows for almost every crime...so long as it was committed by a man.
But, when we address false rape accusations, we are overwhelmingly talking about women having committed the crime.
I don't know if you folks in the UK heard much about Mary Winkler? She was about to face significant problems from a check-cashing scam she'd been running. Rather than have her husband find out what she'd been up to at a scheduled meeting at her bank, she shot her sleeping husband in the back while he slept, pulled the phone cord from the wall so that he could call for help himself, then calmly left the scene.
When she was captured, her story became that she felt sicken and humiliated that he wanted her to dress sexy and and have kinky sex.
[and all the women go, "Oh! You poor dear!"]
Long-story-short, she gets 3 months in a mental hospital, compensation for television appearances, custody of her children, and no possibility of any further punishment - ever.
This same, "Oh she's just a little crazy - and, no doubt, theres a man to blame for that too" line of reasoning is now being seen in the dealings with women who are known to have made false allegations.
Danmell Ndonye offers a very good example. Her boyfriend realize that she's just had sex with some one else, so she claims that it was rape.
But, we are told that she's "troubled" (only a troubled women would have a gang-bang, despite ample evidence that it happens all the time). We are informed by feminsit BS artist like Amanda Hess that her lying was really the fault of men - the patriarchy which forces women to hide their sexuality and partners who aren't "man enough" to welcome and celebrate their partners having sex with others.
Poof! And Ndonye becomes a women with mental issues, caused in part by men, so she should NOT be punished.
Really, I'd like to be able to agree with you on this one, and I'd like to see mental health issue NOT factor in to reduced punishments. the trouble is, I keep reading about examples of that very thing happening WRT false rape accusers.
If we call for their mental states to be considered, we are de facto suggesting that they be treated leniently because of those supposed mental issues.
You are basically making my case for me.
these cases only happen because each one invokes the mental health card with the assumption that this case, Your Honour, is very unique, and a one off.
IF IT IS SHOWN that mental illness is what LEADS to false rape claims, then suddenly we have three UNAVOIDABLE conclusions.
1/ It ain't a one off. Just the first time they went above the radar. This is actually NORMAL behaviour for them, NOT exceptional.
2/ There is no reason to assume the mentally ill person is, in the future, going to do anything except continue to be mentally ill.
3/ The state has AN ABSOLUTE LEGAL DUTY to protect law abiding citizens from the mentally ill.
AfOR
"IF IT IS SHOWN that mental illness is what LEADS to false rape claims, then suddenly we have three UNAVOIDABLE conclusions."
On the other hand, we have the UNAVOIDABLE observations of women being let off easy for making false rape accusations just because they may have mental health issues.
I'm not arguing the reasons WHY they make false rape claims; I'm pointing out the OUTCOMES when they're deemed "troubled", or the suggestion is made that "mental health issues played a large part in the false report" (as seen in this story).
Perhaps we're looking at this from the wrong perspective.
In your case, suppose evidence came to light proving your accuser was lying. Would you wish to see the argument be made that she has BPD and therefor she should not be punished, and should instead be given sympathy and counseling? maybe you could get a letter of apology from her, and an explanation that she "appreciates the seriousness of the offense", so there's no need to pursue the matter any further?
Based on these other examples posted on this site, it sure does appear that this is exactly what would happen.
You're not reading what I am writing.
I'll lay good money there is a VERY STRONG correlation between Mental Disorder and False Rape Claims.
Once/If this is shown to be true, you CANNOT, and I man CAN (pause) NOT continue to use mental issues to EXCUSE the crime.
Mental Issues are the CAUSE of the crime.
THEN, and ONLY THEN, we will be in a place where an FRA playing the "I'm disturbed" cars will be EXACTLY analogous to the car jacker playing the "I was high on crack" card.
It stops working.
ALL of you here, Pierce included, appear to focus on what is happening NOW, and, being a victim myself I can empathise with that, but what this boils down to is looking in the rear view mirror.
Feminists got where the are today by planning AHEAD.
Like I am trying to do here, plan AHEAD, make the mental illness card as unplayable as the "I was high on crack" card when it comes to trial.
AfOR
AfOR - "Like I am trying to do here, plan AHEAD, make the mental illness card as unplayable as the "I was high on crack" card when it comes to trial."
But, herein lies the crux of the issue. These cases ARE NOT going to trial, nor is it likely that they ever will. The "crazy" defense isn't being employed as a defense tactic, it's being used to get charges reduced and dropped altogether.
Danmell Ndonye didn't have to bring in expert witnesses to support her claim of a mental disorder in her trial - because she never went to trial. The suggestion that she had a mental disorder was given as reason enough to give her a sweet-heart deal. The case in the article of this thread was basically the same - someone says she might be mentally ill, so there's no reason to pursue it any further, just slap her wrist, and keep it off her permanent record ("Successful completion of the probation order will earn her a discharge that will leave her without a criminal record.").
And, even if we are to ignore what's going on today, and plan for the future, we would still need to overcome the significant obstacle of society bending-over-backwards to explain and minimize the bad behaviors of women.
When Andrea Yates systematically drowned all her children, the rush was not to condemn her as an evil monster, but rather to explain why a mother would do such a thing. plenty of fathers have killed their children, and no one asks why, we simply seek to punish the monster. The obvious "what if the genders were reversed" question is by-n-large, completely ignored.
Same thing when Clara Harris repeatedly runs over her unfaithful husband with her car. A majority proclaimed, "the cheating SOB got what he deserved", without asking the simple question as to whether it would be acceptable for a husband to run-down his cheating wife in the same way.
The significant advantages women have are deeply ingrained into every aspect of society. Expecting that mental disorders will ever come to be disregarded when punishing women (as opposed to that being the case for men) is, at best, a long shot.
To my way of reasoning, it would be better to downplay, or even challenge the notion that a false accuser suffers from a mental disorder.
It could well be argued that Danmell Ndonye displayed "zero" evidence of a mental disorder. In fact, she was doing what any perfectly same women would have done in covering her own butt with what has been readily observed to have been a spectacularly effective ploy for women down through the ages, with little chance of consequence to her.
Likewise the girl in the next thread who lied that she had been raped to cover for being caught sneaking home after having sex with her boyfriend. Just exactly what evidence is there of ANY mental disorder in that case? A rape lie is just stone-cold sanity for women who've seen it work for other women their whole lives, in a society that does everything it can to protect women from consequences and explain and minimize any and all of their "sins".
At the core, your aim is correct in it's design and intention. It just may be a case of getting the cart in front of the horse to focus on the mental issues before we've first achieved the fair justice of women being routinely punished for the crime.
I still don't think you grasp the scale of the problem, please work through these following points, one by one.
1/ feminists claim x% of all women will at some time be sexually abused.
2/ feminists claim y% of all women have been sexually abused.
3/ feminists, like all groups, are more prone to "buy their own product" (in this case, propoganda) than anyone outside their group.
4/ Group B Mental Disorders affect between 1-3% of the population.
5/ Of that 1-3% of the population affected by Group B Mental Disorders, a significant majority of those so affected are female.
6/ Feminists, like any other group, are largely ignorant of every field outside their own group dogma.
7/ FRS males are, like any other group, largely ignorant on the subject of Group B Mental Disorders.
8/ Feminists are, like any other group, largely ignorant on the subject of Group B Mental Disorders.
(interesting aside here, up until the middle ages "hysteria" in females was well known, and well accepted, in fact many witches burnt for "posession" were probably Group B types)
9/ The feminist agenda, and indeed the mangina agenda, being largely ignorant of Group B Mental Disorders, CANNOT HELP but promote them, while pursuing their stated goals of equality for women etc.
10/ Women with Group B Mental Disorders are a subset of all Women.
11/ Educating feminists, manginas, DA's, Police, etc about the prevalence and symptoms of Group B Mental Disorders benefits everyone, feminists, manginas, womankind, DA's, police, courts and men, including male victims of FRS.
12/ There is NO POSSIBLE losing strategy in educating everyone about Group B Mental Disorders affecting 1-3% of the female population.
13/ The ONLY people who can possibly be alienated or object are those who ARE Group B, and they, by definition, are already alienated by their own choice.
14/ This startegy, promoting awareness of Group B Mental Disorders, the frequency of same (1-3% of all females) is a WORKABLE strategy, because it neatly AVOIDS going on a "two enter, one leave" strategy with all the opposing forces out there such as feminism and manginas.
15/ I have been experimenting with this, talking to "you have a penis so you are a rapist" feminists, and talking to them about Group B Mental Disorders, and guess what, after some initial scepticism they have all so far gone and done their own research, and then started discussing the subject seriously.
16/ There is a significant possibility here that these feminist / mangina DA's etc are acting in a way they believe to be genuine, simply because excluding / including the 1-3% of all females who have Group B Mental Disorder changes the entire picture just as much as a little yeast changes the dough.
HTH etc
AfOR
AfOR,
In points 11-16 you lay out a good argument for eventually getting more people to accept the possibility/probability of rape claims being false. I thinks your rational is valid, and might, in time, pan-out well.
However, there's point 10.
Even if they are a small subset of all women, there is still the issue of women by-n-large tending to rally around the plight of other women. Many men also rally around the perceived plights of women. [something that distinguishes the male gender from the female is the tendency/ability to be concerned about members of the other gender with who one has no relationship, and might never even meet. It is something seen in only a small percentage of women, while it is quite common amongst men - just as an aside]
What this leads to is that if a small group of women are seen as suffering from some condition which would cause them to act criminally, women will instinctively (I'm not sure of a better word to use here) rally to protect and defend them (Andrea Yates, for example). Additionally, a significant portion of men will also wish to rally around them in similarly protective fashion.
This is why I believe we see such easy acceptance of this emerging notion that it is okay to not punish false rape accusers due to the possibility that they suffer from a mental disorder.
What your ideal is up against is the cold, hard reality that women are afforded immense deference for any behaviors which can be seen as being beyond their control (while most men will experience the exact opposite). It is part of the "infantilization" of adult women, which feminists will loudly decry if anyone mentions it, but will also gladly embrace when ever it suits their interests (i.e., a drunk women cannot consent to sex, even if she initiates it; but a drunk man is still expected to "control himself").
If we, as a society, can somehow begin to treat women as adults, demanding responsibility along with the freedoms they now enjoy, then we might well make the argument that Group B Mental Disorders account for many false rape allegations, and should not be considered a defense for those crimes.
Still, as it stands, many men and most women will both continue to refuse to accept that false rape claims may arise from such disorders, and simultaneously accept that if rape claims are proven false, the women making them can be excused from punishment due to her suffering from those very disorders.
We've got our work cut out for us, it would seem.
Point 10.
I was *hoping* you'd stumble on that one.
SgtMom on here is a woman, she doesn't appear to be rallying around other women...
1-3% of all women are Group B Mental Disorder.
feminists, subset of all women? check.
therefore it is likely that 1-3% of all feminists may be Group B, it may be more, it may be less, depending on the self selecting nature of feminism...
Strong religious beliefs don't seem to affect the proportion, for example.
etc etc
you see where this is going?
Do you think SgtMom is Group B?
I don't.
Do you think the woman who accused her man is?
I do.
Do you think Atom is?
We don't know, at this point she could be a woman unaware of the prevalence of Group B, or she could be a Group B, it makes a HUGE difference which one it is.
You *CANNOT* communicate / deal / relate with a Group B
see where I am with this?
Maybe 100% of all women minus 1-3% of all women equals 97% of all women are actually on my / our side....
AfOR
Sorry, AfOR, but just as I suggested in a recent thread, women's mental health issue - even BPD, and probably even PMS - are going to be routinely used to save evil, thoughtless, and purely self-interested women from having to suffer any real consequences when their caught in false rape lies that could harm men - up to and including their imprisonments and deaths.
Not "going to". Depressive conditions and specifically female conditions such as post natal distress have been cited as mitigation by female perpetrators for years particularly when they sexually abuse. In my country they have a one hundred percent success rate.
I frequently tell parents of boys that they should move heaven and earth to get their sons away from any female - teacher, child care worker etc - diagnosed with a depressive condition. This is not necessarily because there is any causality involved in a womans depression and her commission of sexual abuse. It is, rather, because that condition can and will be sufficient for any offending woman to go unpunished.
The girl's mental health issues played a large part in the false report, said defence lawyer Noelle Wright.
The boy had developmental issues but the girl did not take advantage of him during the incident, said Wright.
This is a very surprising and troubling assertion. Why would the defence put this out there at all? Why draw attention to it unneccessarily? It is a common tactic for female rapists to accuse their victim of being the aggressor. Did this young woman, fearing that her own actions may be seriously questionable, pre-emptively accuse her own victim?
Gwallan,
It sure looks like it, doesn't it.
Such false complaints undermine public trust in the justice system, said Justice Deborah Austin.
No Justice Austin, the slap on the wrist you gave a false accuser is what undermines the public trust in the justice system, no the false complaint itself.
How is it that people who can make it through law school, and pass the bar, are so completely oblivious to the stupidity of their statements?
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