In the following excerpt from a law review article, Professor Dan Subotnik cautions that we should be skeptical of the "rape culture" label and of the feminist claims minimizing the false rape problem. D. Subotnik, "HANDS OFF": SEX, FEMINISM, AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT, AND THE LAW OF FOREPLAY, 16 S. Cal. Rev. L. & Social Justice 249, 280-81 (2007):
Do Americans inhabit a "rape culture?" According to United Nations data for 2000, the percentage of people reporting victimization by "sexual incidents" in the United States is less than the average percentage of victimization in the twenty-three industrialized countries measured. This was equally true for component parts of that category, "sexual assaults" and "offensive sexual behavior." Moreover, the U.S. assault and threat rates are, generally, far higher than the "sexual incident" rate. This is not to equate the impact on victims of these various crimes with the impact on rape victims, but I know from personal experience the trauma of being mugged. If we do not despair over an assault-robbery culture, it seems both fair and socially constructive to be highly skeptical of the rape-culture claim.
And perhaps of everything else written about rape, for it should be evident that the entire body of rape literature requires strict scrutiny. 228
n228 Let's focus on false rape charges. A much-cited datum is that false rape charges amount to only two percent of all rape complaints. See Edward Greer, The Truth Behind Legal Dominance Feminism 's "Two Percent False Rape Claim " Figure, 33 LOY. L.A. L. REV. 947, 949 & n.l 1 (2000). The latest data "indicate that the rates for false reports of rape are comparable to false charge rates for other crimes." NANCY LEVIT & ROBERT R. M. VERCHICK, FEMINIST LEGAL THEORY 184 (2006); see also Bonnie S. Fisher et al., Acknowledging Sexual Victimization as Rape: Results from a National-Level Study, 20 JUST. Q. 535 (2003) (reporting that women considered to have been raped were, in fact, raped).
Anderson, however, admits that the two-percent number is questionable. See Anderson, supra note 119, at 984, 985 & n.235. The false rape problem would appear to be far more serious. See JOHN M. MACDONALD WITH DAVID L. MICHAUD, RAPE: CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES 84-108 (1995). A medical doctor and highly published author on criminal law issues, Macdonald was, at the time he wrote the book, professor emeritus in psychiatry at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center.
In what is probably the most extensive empirical study of false rape, Purdue psychologist Eugene J. (E.J.) Kanin, reported on his study of a small Midwestern metropolitan area where, of 109 charges of forcible rape, 41% proved false and unfounded. Eugene J. Kanin, False Rape Allegations, 23 ARCHIVES SEXUAL BEHAV. 81, 83-84 (1994). A "false and unfounded" conclusion was reached only when the complainant admitted that no rape occurred. Id. In two large Midwestern universities that they also studied, 50% of reported forcible rapes were found to be false and unfounded. Id. at 90. Here complaints were investigated exclusively by female officers and, again, recantation was required. Id.
The FBI has put the rate of false rape charges at 8%, four times the number for other crimes it tracks. See MACDONALD, supra, at 86 (citing the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports); Anderson, supra note 119, at 985; see also Dick Haws, The Elusive Numbers on False Rape, COLUM. JOURNALISM REV., Nov.-Dec. 1997, available at http://archives/cjr/org/year/97/6/rape.asp. And in the context of race, false rape charges have long been acknowledged. See LISA LINDQUIST DORR, WHITE WOMEN, RAPE, AND THE POWER OF RACE IN VIRGINIA, 1900-1960 (2004). The Duke case provides a contemporary example. Should this not raise concern generally?
The false rape problem goes way back in time. In fact, our patriarchs' lives stand as a stern warning against women's brazenness in this regard. See Genesis 39, for the account of Potiphar's wife who sets Joseph up for incarceration because he rejected her advances. She apparently never recanted, and let Joseph languish in prison for twelve years. See THE PENTATEUCH AND HAFTORAHS 158 n.46 (J. H. Hertz ed., Soncino Press 1965).
The above discussion raises a simple but important question: Was enactment of rape shield laws a capitulation to the mob as in the Brown and Duke cases?
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49 comments:
I do appreciate when posts like this from persons who are experts in their field. It is difficult to argue with the professor's logic.
Why should we believe that Joseph didn’t rape the wife? Let’s see, men wrote the various books in the Bible, men were even more sexist then than now, men viewed women as sinful (like MRAs do now), and someone writes a story about a poor man who was accused of rape but, of course, was innocent. Right. Never believed that.
I wonder what the law professor thinks about the gang rapists and friends who stood around as a girl was raped and beaten for hours in California. I'd say that's a pretty clear example of rape being not that big of a deal. Isn't that "rape culture"?
Are you referring to that false accusation of rape in California, that all the feminist morons believe in spite of Hofstra?
Jeana probably thinks the serpent raped Eve in the Garden!
I'm talking about the beaten and raped high school girl who's still in the hospital because of her injuries. But every rape is a "false" rape to you people, isn't it? I bet those guys standing around the victim were MRAs.
Oh really? Well there isn't much doubt that those people calling for the castration of the Duke victims were feminists, now is there?
And yes, I have doubts that this was a "rape," considering that a crowd of people was watching the sex. I eagerly await the evidence that never seems to manifest when one of these stories comes out.
As if MRAs would stand around watching an orgy! Knowing how common false accusations are in our weird society they'd be running for the hills!
"considering that a crowd of people was watching the sex"
"Sex" that went on for 2 1/2 hours with multiple males who then beat the crap out of her and stole her jewelry and left her under a picnic table? That isn't "sex". That is RAPE. And many of those standing around also participated in it. Weren't these gang bangers too? Or as you'd call them, "gentlemen". Not me.
Was she injured? Have you seen a medical report? I sure haven't.
Proof, dah-ling. That's all that impresses me.
Since you didn't know this, consensual sex can last for two and a half hours and happen under a picnic table, also.
How do you know that this was a rape, Jeane-asshole? Why would twenty people watch a rape without calling the cops? Sounds awful fishy to me.
"But every rape is a "false" rape to you people, isn't it?"
Not to this blog. Move on to another blog. You're banned.
To our readers: don't bother commenting to anything she says -- it is going to be deleted. Tough for those who don't like it. I'm not changing my mind.
Naturally all rape accusations should be disbelieved, until they are proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Which is a very high standard. Unfortunately our system doesn't always hold accusations to that standard. We just pretend that defendents are presumed innocent.
I suggest, Ms. Jeana, that if it were you or someone you care about accused of a terrible crime, you would also want the allegations to be treated with a high level of skepticism.
I will be posting a civility policy for posting, and the one thing it will stress is that we have many falsely accused readers to this blog who don't need to be assaulted by hate speech. Jeana's disruptions are akin to a screaming child who needs to be taken out of church.
Archivist, someone replied (to Jeana) on Oct 29, 2009 7:27:00 PM (in regard to the recent gang rape of a 15 yr old girl) as follows:
"And yes, I have doubts that this was a "rape," considering that a crowd of people was watching the sex. I eagerly await the evidence that never seems to manifest when one of these stories comes out.
Archivist, having heard this, are you of the same opinion as the poster who made this comment?
Atom, all I know is what I read in the newspapers, which are often inaccurate because they often find rape where it didn't occur (fact). If a male penetrates an unconscious woman who can't freely consent, it is rape. With that said, given the history of our news media of initially hiding or ignoring facts showing the absence of rape, I would not be surprised if we learn a lot we don't know. And unlike you, Atom, I am hoping this young woman was not brutally raped.
Now do you want to be banned, too? I might just get hot and ban every troll this blog has tonight.
Atom/Georgia Girl - "Archivist, having heard this, are you of the same opinion as the poster who made this comment?"
Anyone whose familiar with this blog know full well that Pierce has repeatedly addressed the issue of rape. Again,and again,and again, he has emphatically stated that rape is a horrible crime.
However, attempts to insert accounts of brutal rapes (even those which are more likely that not to be actual rapes) into the discussion here are nothing more than an all too obvious attempt to try to discredit those who dare to believe that there are also plenty of false rape allegations.
And, frankly, it is the false rape allegations that Pierce and Steven have chosen to focus on with their blog forum.
As for the victims of rapes, there are counselors, the police will treat the crimes committed against them very seriously, prosecutors will seek the strongest penalties possible for their attackers, the press will protect their identities while pillorying the prep, they may receive financial support, and they will more likely than not receive ample sympathy and support from friends and family.
They may endure a horrible crime, but they are not abandoned and forgotten.
Yet, as I'm sure you are aware, men (and women too) who've been falsely accused get none of this - and even their friends and family often turn on them.
In short, the victims of rape have plenty of advocates, and that crime gets ample attention. Pierce and Steven have consistently sought to serve as advocates for the victims of false rape allegations, and to highlight that serious crime, which has gone largely over-looked.
People (and I use that term guardedly) like Jeana had no better agenda than to attempt to mock and discredit those who are victims of false allegations, and to derail discussions of that crime.
Good riddance to her.
Oh, and that poster who doubted that gang-rape claim may simply have been giving jeana a dose of her own medicine.
slwerner is, as always, the voice of reason. That is exactly correct. We don't pretend to tell the entire rape story here. Rape victims have many, many others speaking for them. We are giving voice to one class of victims and telling one part of the rape story. Virtually no one else is doing that. The difference between us and the feminist blogs is that they don't tell the entire rape story, either. But unlike us, they refuse to admit it.
"And unlike you, Atom, I am hoping this young woman was not brutally raped."
But, Arhivisit, it's already been determined that this "little girl" (certainly not a woman since she is only 15) was beaten and left alone after being gang raped. She was in critical condition upon arrival at the hospital.
You added:
"Now do you want to be banned, too? I might just get hot and ban every troll this blog has tonight."
It's your blog and your call. I'm sure you'll do the "right" thing.
Yes, indeedy, this is an MRA blog with a loud voice for the falsely accused. And it's a worth while cause.
But, gentlemen, you are on the defensive tonight more so than I've seen you in the past ~~ tension is very thick.
Why is that so ... ?
Why tonight? ... on the heels of an alleged brutal gang rape?
Atom/GG - "Why is that so ... ?
Why tonight? ... on the heels of an alleged brutal gang rape?"
Much as I hate to give her any credit at all, I see this as being entirely a product of jeana's challenges.
In her own words, she prides herself on torturing MRA's. And, while she may torture logic and reason far more than she tortures MRA's, she did indeed manage to get under our collective skin more than once.
One way in which she was especially effective was to try to juxtapose a media report of a very brutal rape with an example of what is likely a false rape allegation, taunting as to how one could believe that the one report was false, given that the account of that brutal rape existed.
Again, she was either never bright enough, or else honest enough to admit that being against rape and being against false rape allegations are in no way mutually exclusive.
The simple fact is that men (99+%) have a deep visceral anger at the though of a woman being raped. As for myself, a man who is well aware that allegations of rape are quite common, I still become enraged when I hear stories like the one about the 15 school-girl. As I had to admit when it first broke that it had been a hoax, my initial reaction to the Hofstra incident was that the news accounts were accurate, and that a woman had been gang-raped.
I wanted nothing more than for the men who I believed had raped her to be prosecuted to the full extent to f the law (or worse). I feel this same way about those accused of raping and severely beating this 15-year old. I am like the vast majority of men, into whose DNA it is deeply encoded to protect women. I would hope that you are able to admit that this is, in fact, how most men view rape.
That we do react this way to accounts of rape serves to highlight the importance of “go slow”, and get the facts before reacting response towards ALL allegations of rape. Not only are innocent men arrested and embarrassed, but some men are beaten and even killed based on nothing more than such an allegation.
Now, while I don’t think that you would, but, if you were to seek to mock this position, then you would be no better than was jeana, who would most certainly have sought to mock.
Jeanna, the problem with you wanting to foment more rape hysteria..is that there are now so many girls making false rape accusations.
Faulty and inflammatory misinformation about the true percentages of false rape accusations (it's not 2%)...is leading to the wrongful persecution of innocent men/boys.
The question has been raised, "Why are you guys on the defensive tonight, on the eve of an alleged brutal gang rape?"
The answer should be obvious: we don't like to hear about alleged brutal gang rapes! Alleged brutal gang rapes make it harder for us to defend the men who are falsely accused. (And I'm not going to make the false assumption that these men are guilty! If the evidence is there it'll keep.)
The only way to protect innocent people from malicious prosecutions is to slow down and ask all of the important questions EACH AND EVERY TIME A CITIZEN IS ACCUSED. That's a doleful responsibility, but if we ever want to live in a truly free and just society again that is the burden we must accept.
We must be skeptical every time we hear of an alleged rape. It is very easy to be skeptical in situations like the Hofstra case, where the defendents were already proven innocent. Unfortunately there are plenty of cases in which the defendent is unable to prove his innocence.
We must be skeptical not just when it's easy but also when it is difficult.
Nobody is on the defensive over a brutal gang rape, Georgia Girl/Atom. Rapes happen. We are currently in the midst of a string of false gang rape claims. The victims of rape and the victims of false gang rape claims are all victims. We focus on the latter because no one else does.
But thanks for the spin to do what your girlfriend, Jeana, started -- to divert from a scholarly piece that CONFIRMS what we say on this blog. I have another coming tomorrow.
You and your girlfriend couldn't respond to what the prof. has said so you focus on an alleged rape.
I banned Jeana because she claims we don't acknowledge rape on this site, which is an utter lie. Rape is an atrocity. Our focus is on a different atrocity. You obviously don't like the fact we do that so your time would be better spent on a different blog.
Besides, Jeana has stated that she actively supports false rape accusations under some circumstances. Why would we want someone like that on here?
It's pretty obvious why a lot of people have become wary when they hear about a rape. The sad fact is the high number of false rape allegations combined with the media and authorities always quickly pouncing on the accused has caused people to doubt a rape has taken place. That is the real sin of the false rape allegations. The fact that feminists push to pretend false rape allegations don't exist when they are all over the place instead of trying to curtail them has caused this. Because most of them don't actually care about the victims, they care about the power and platform a "rape culture" gives them.
Remember if it wasn't for a video, people would all still be talking about the guys that are going to jail for 20+ years for the brutal rape of an innocent Hofstra student....
Sorry, but I can't tell if all the text is from the law review article, or if archivist(s) or Pierce interjected anything, for example the last sentence.
jeana,
I feel sorry for you, because on the day when you finally realize that in the long run, feminism does not operate in your own best interests, you will realize that you have wasted all your energy in supporting it.
p.s.
I noticed your cowardly, cherry-picking blog does not have a place to leave comments.
Sorry Archivist,
I didn't see your above post about deleting replies to jeana, until after I made the above comments:)
@slwerner,
"Anyone whose familiar with this blog know full well that Pierce has repeatedly addressed the issue of rape. Again,and again,and again, he has emphatically stated that rape is a horrible crime."
Not only that, he has repeatedly emphasized that the false accusation rate is (somewhere around) 40-60% ...which is less than 100% :)
The latest data "indicate that the rates for false reports of rape are comparable to false charge rates for other crimes."
Interesting to say the least but, not a surprise at all. I find it important that she mentions false accusations of other violent crimes,real or imagined, as well.
Norm said...
jeana,
I feel sorry for you, because on the day when you finally realize that in the long run, feminism does not operate in your own best interests, you will realize that you have wasted all your energy in supporting it.
Oct 30, 2009 12:31:00 AM
I agree with you Norm. I could wonder what becomes of feminists who have become too old to serve their herarchy. Imagine a feminist being reincarnated as a male in the aftermath of the feminist destruction of the world.
The professor makes his points regarding the "rape culture in a manner that is very excellent, well-cited, well-informed and, authoritaive. I wonder what "spawn of satan" Catherine McKinnon would try to say as a rebuttal. I don't think she, or any other feminist lawyer, or feminist legal theorist, could be at anything but a great loss for words.
"I can't tell if all the text is from the law review article, or if archivist(s) or Pierce interjected anything, for example the last sentence."
Nope -- it's all the prof. Sounds like something we'd write, doesn't it? That's because we're not as far-out as some of our enemies thing.
I think the new story about the 15 year old girl who was "gang-raped" will turn out just like many of the other recent "gang-rapes" to be a case where a female invented a story to cover up the fact that she got drunk and had sex with more than one random stranger.
If it turns out that she really was gang-raped,it'd be the first actual gang rape case out of a whole shitload of false reports, and if a crowd of 20 people watched this girl being raped and did nothing, it is indicative of what feminism has "done for women" these days.
Because I can guarantee you that 20 years ago it would have been 20 people taking turns beating the rapist,even after he was dead. So that's something for the feminist trolls to think about.
Oct 30, 2009 8:40:00 AM:
Because I can guarantee you that 20years ago it would have been 20 people taking turns beating the rapist,even after he was dead. So that's something for the feminist trolls to think about.
Not necessarily true if contained in a controlled environment because the pack mentality among [some] groups of men is age-old. Each incident would depend on the circumstances of the crime.
"Not necessarily true if contained in a controlled environment because the pack mentality among [some] groups of men is age-old. Each incident would depend on the circumstances of the crime."
The number of rapists within the male population is about .001%. You would not find 20 rapists within 50 miles of each other, let alone 5 blocks. Do you think guys set up,like, rape networks or something? LMAO. "Hey Joe, you gotta get down here,man!" "Are we raping tonight?" "Oh yeah,it is ON!"
Also, your insinuation that the "bandwagon effect" comes into play with (some) males regarding rape, is just sick. You just won't give up the idea that groups of men are conspiring to rape you, will you?
What is it, your pet masturbatory fantasy or something?
Aonymous to GG - "Also, your insinuation that the "bandwagon effect" comes into play with (some) males regarding rape, is just sick. You just won't give up the idea that groups of men are conspiring to rape you, will you?"
Many years ago (early '80's, I believe) there was an instance in which three men took turns raping a woman in a bar (somewhere in New England, IIRC), apparently egged-on by another man who acted as a ring-leader.
It was such an extraordinary event that the news of this spread quickly (in the days before wide-spread implementation of the WWW, no less).
In fact, it was such an extraordinary event that a movie was made based on the story (The Accused).
That movie was very sympathetic towards the women who had been raped, and her story; but, more importantly, that fact that such a movie would have come out of such an event serves to demonstrate just how rare and how exceptional such a instance of "bandwagon effect" in a rape was (and still is).
Even today we still see the sensational effect of stories of gang rapes - even if they mostly turn out to be hoaxes. Hofstra and Duke were both events that gained national attention for no other reason that they were stories of such a "bandwagon effect" in alleged rapes. Without such a supposed mob mentality involved, there was no reason that the events should ever have been any more noticed that any other rape allegations (real or not).
Also interestingly (to me, anyway) was a link to a study GG posted some time back. It was about a feminist professor who (no doubt back by tax-payer derived National Science Foundation and/or collegiate endowment monies) set out to study gang-rapes on college campuses. Apparently, after years of encouraging women to come forward with their accounts, she claims to have uncovered 76 such incidents spanning 40+ years.
To be clear, these are not incidents ever reported to authorities, and may well be nothing more than the regrets of women who willingly engaged, or even entirely fictional accounts invented by women eager to please the professor.
Still, even if 100% true, at about two-per-year throughout North America, it hardly seems to support GG's belief that it is rampant and wide-spread.
"Still, even if 100% true, at about two-per-year throughout North America, it hardly seems to support GG's belief that it is rampant and wide-spread."
That's what I'm saying, it almost never happens. What's more common is the reverse scenario, where there is a bandwagon effect that results in beating rapists (or suspected rapists) to death.
I bet if you did a comparative study of one versus the other "gang-beatings" of rapists, or "rapists", would outnumber gang rapes 5:1 or even 10:1.
Because I can guarantee you that 20 years ago it would have been 20 people taking turns beating the rapist,even after he was dead. So that's something for the feminist trolls to think about.
*************
It's the same way today! I've read news stories about crowds beating up alleged rapists, and no charges being filed. So why should we believe that twenty random people stood around for two and a half hours watching a young girl being "brutally raped"? The people who find that easy to believe are living in a fantasy world in which America is a country that despises women rather than men.
The overwhelming bias of our society is anti-male!
Still, even if 100% true, at about two-per-year throughout North America, it hardly seems to support GG's belief that it is rampant and wide-spread.
This is like the 6% conviction rate that is trotted out. What is the dishonest part of the 6% figure, is that it is calculated from ALL rape allegations, which include all of those that are determined as False or Unfounded. When you look at the percentage of cases that go to trial, 41% of those end in conviction.
This type of misleading tactic has been continuously used to fan the flames of rape hysteria. So yes, based on the mis-information being posited, there is a "Rape Culture". Too bad it is based on lies.
Anon jokes:
"Do you think guys set up,like, rape networks or something? LMAO. "Hey Joe, you gotta get down here,man!" "Are we raping tonight?" "Oh yeah,it is ON!"
YES, THAT IS EXACTLY HOW A GANG RAPE OCCURS (or use to) IN A FRAT ENVIRONMENT.
Anon adds:
"Also, your insinuation that the "bandwagon effect" comes into play with (some) males regarding rape, is just sick. You just won't give up the idea that groups of men are conspiring to rape you, will you?"
Bandwagon effect? Call it whatever you like. I call it the pack or mob mentality. The dynamics of such a group is very interesting, in that it mitigates the individual's responsibility for Rape.
SLWERNER,
We've hashed this around forever, so you already know where I'm coming from when I say that Gang Rape was a problem loooong before the 1980s.
Slwerner, I think the professor you're referring to is Bernice Sandler who did NOT research gang rape exclusively, but rather the problem of Rape on college campuses. Her report was published in 1985.
I disagree that gang rape was an "exceptional" occurrence. The reason the movie "The Accused" was exceptional is because it portrayed a victim and her attorney who had the guts to go the whole 9 yards in bringing the perpetrators to justice.
Unfortunately, there were no statistics for the 60s, which probably means college rape did not exist, right?
I can tell you that "gang rape" occurred with regularity in the 1960s by the Greeks at Ga Tech. If it happened there, are we to believe that Ga Tech had a monopoly on gang rape? ... or would it be safe to say that it happened on campuses throughout the country.
Remember, Slwerner, you were not a Greek ... there are many things you were not privy to.
gg,
I'm glad you put "gang rape" in quotes in your above comment.
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