This is a must read -- another story on the incident we reported last week. It appears that there has been a serious problem with over-reporting of sexual assaults by a couple of universities over the last couple of years. If this is the case, shouldn't this be a case of fraud, as those numbers are what help to decide how much federal funding a school gets? The first comment at the link to the story asks the pertinent question in all of this:
"From an entire career based on "cooking the books" we have to ask how much of this misconduct pervades the field of reporting campus violence. Since misreporting it proved so beneficial to Beeman, we can suspect that it has also done so for others."
Does this mean that the 1 in 4, 1 in 3, 1 in 5 (whichever number is being used this week), is completely wrong? Based on the fact that at UC-Davis, the numbers were 1/2 to 1/3 of what was actually reported. And Ms Beeman is considered a "recognized authority" on this topic? How many other "recognized authorities" are doing the same thing?
At least on this campus and at West Virginia University, it is now apparent that they are not "Authorities" in anything other than fraud. At this point, a federal investigation is badly needed across the country to determine how many schools are doing this type of thing.
Overreporting of sexual assaults at UC-Davis brings into question actual numbers of sexual assaults.
The University of California at Davis revealed Thursday that for at least three years it reported an inflated number of sexual assaults to the federal government.
An internal investigation and an external review both found that the university totals released for 2005, 2006 and 2007 were substantially greater than the totals that had actually been reported on and around campus. Under the Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act, colleges and universities must file annual statistics with the Department of Education and release them publicly to students and employees.
Davis reported 48 forcible sexual offenses in 2005, 68 in 2006 and 69 in 2007. The actual totals, according to the two reviews, were 21, 23 and 33.
The university places the blame on Jennifer Beeman, former director of its Campus Violence Prevention Program, who retired in June 2009. Beeman was on medical leave during the spring semester and a staffer tallying the 2008 statistics in her place found there had been just 17 forcible sexual offenses reported that year, which either indicated a drastic drop in crime from the year before or an indication of past misreporting. The latter, according to the internal and external reviews, was true.
Robert Loessberg-Zahl, assistant executive vice chancellor, said that because Beeman was “widely recognized as an authority on Clery matters, we didn’t have a second set of eyes look at the numbers reported.” In retrospect, he added, “that was a mistake.… We trusted her too much.”
Beeman, reached at her home in Sacramento, declined comment. Since she is no longer a university employee, Loessberg-Zahl said, the institution can’t take disciplinary action against her. He declined to speculate on her motivations for inflating the statistics.
After its initial announcement Thursday, the university also disclosed Beeman was placed on paid administrative leave in December 2008 while under investigation for improperly charging travel expenses to a federal grant. The university later changed her status to medical leave and she reimbursed Davis $1,372 for the charges. The findings of that probe led the university to initiate a second investigation, which is still ongoing.
S. Daniel Carter, director of Security on Campus, a nonprofit group run by the Clery family, said his group has “never seen anything like this.” Though there have been several incidents over the years of “what amounted to sloppy record keeping, there have been no other cases where you’re talking about 100 percent -- almost 200 percent -- more crimes of a certain kind being reported to the federal government than is actually true.”
Under the Clery Act, the Department of Education can fine institutions for misrepresenting crime statistics, whether underreporting, overreporting or otherwise conveying inaccurate information. West Virginia University is under investigation by the department and facing fines of as much as $27,500 for misrepresentations made in 2001 and 2002, Carter said. He estimated that Davis could face fines totaling $2.96 million.
Loessberg-Zahl said Davis was “absolutely cooperating with the Department of Education” as it investigates what happened there. “We understand there’s the possibility of sanctions, but at this point we haven’t heard from the department on any actions they’ll be taking.”
Going forward, though, the university has learned its lesson, he said. “All crime statistics compiled by staff will be checked by a panel of three experts,” a uniformed campus police officer, a Clery Act specialist from its Office of Student Judicial Affairs and a university counsel. With the new system in place, “we’ll have done what’s necessary to make sure the information we’re sending to the federal government is verified.”
Recent signs of trouble came in February, when the local Fox affiliate reported that there were more sexual assaults at Davis in 2007 than there were at all other University of California campuses combined. At the time, a Davis spokeswoman attributed the numbers to the fact that the institution had a “nationally recognized … model program for its outreach efforts and services for survivors.”
Beeman's misconduct may go back further. A 2001 Sacramento Bee investigation found that though the university had reported no sexual assaults under the Clery Act in 1998, Beeman said, when applying for a $543,000 federal grant, that there had been 700 rapes or attempted rapes there that year. She told the newspaper that she had extrapolated the number from national statistics on sexual assaults of college students but had not meant to include that total in her application.
Loessberg-Zahl said the university will work to re-verify its statistics for all 16 years that Beeman led the Campus Violence Prevention Program if the Department of Education "gives us some indication that we ought to go back and review those years."
Link:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/10/02/davis#Comments
Posts
51 comments:
Manufacturing statistics to cash in these statistics for state and federal dollars..is not only the crime of Fraud...it also manufactures faulty and inflammatory misinformation that creates a prejudice against innocent men/boys.
Every system on the planet gets "gamed" eg played by the rules of the system, to advantage.
Here in the UK, for example, Universities get paid from central goverment on a per capita "bums on seats" basis.
What this means is that revenue stream = number of bums on seats, and before you know it there are degrees available in such prestigious subjects as "equine aromatherapy" and sceince and technology degrees (which also have costs to the university, eg labs and technicians) are of course sidelined completely.
All we are seeing here is another aspect of gaming the system.
Indeed all the "women as victims" activist groups get funding in exactly the same manner, therefore they MUST also be gaming the system.
AfOR
Feminism is a manufacturing company. The main product is victimization.
Feminist pork industries are one of the few prosperous organizations left in America.
The figure of $543,000 Beeman applied for was based on national statistics on sexual assault. She made this clear when submitting the grant app.
The actual number of sexual assaults at UC-Davis for 2005, 2006, and 2007 were 21, 23, 33, indicating that Rape is NOT declining on our college campuses.
Now then, if you add the AMA statistics showing that half of all rape victims do not report their offenders, Beeman's figures were correct.
Had ANY of those 33 Rapes in 2007 been "false", I guess Archivist would have told us by now?
sexual assault (alleged) != rape
lying cunt atom
AfOR
Atom, of 33 reported rapes, we don't know how any of them were resolved. Perhaps none were actual rapes. Of that number likely 60 percent or more turned out to be false, and another unknown group can't be proven one way or the other. So of 33,
I suspect that one or two might have been actual rapes that we are fairly certain occurred. If that.
Atom - ”The figure of $543,000 Beeman applied for was based on national statistics on sexual assault.”
Just what national statistics were these? Some made-up figure, like 1 in 4 women being raped? You’re going to need to explain this one.
And, this: ”The actual number of sexual assaults at UC-Davis for 2005, 2006, and 2007 were 21, 23, 33, indicating that Rape is NOT declining on our college campuses.”
Technically speaking, sexual assaults are NOT limited to rape. It can also include unwanted sexual touching, and even incidences of people being “flashed” (of course, that would be women being surprised and flashed by naked men rather than the rather common occurrences of large numbers of men being flashed by drunken women, which are not taken to be crimes against men the way women being flashed by men is*)
How do we know what percentage of those sexual assaults actually involve a claim of rape as opposed to, say, a woman being groped? And, even if each and every one of those incidents was a rape (unlikely, based on the number of rapes reported on other college campuses), just exactly how does that even prove that there is any general trend in increasing numbers of rape. One year in three does not a trend make. And, also consider that in Beeman’s absence, the number of reported sexual assaults for 2009 was 17.
Perhaps we should laud the 50% reduction in sexual assaults between 2008 and 2009?
And, finally, there’s this: ”Now then, if you add the AMA statistics showing that half of all rape victims do not report their offenders, Beeman's figures were correct.”
So, the AMA say’s 50% for non-reporting. Others say it’s 60%. More radical man-hating gender feminists insist it upwards of 90%.
What studies have actually been done to try to get an accurate number? All we seem to have are extrapolations from surveys of self-selected groups.
It is statistically invalid to claim a “correct” figure from extrapolated values. Such calculated numbers are called “ESTIMATES” by honest people.
And, even assuming that the AMA 50% figure for women overall is accurate, it does not lend itself to application to a college population where significant efforts are made to encourage the women to report any and all sex that might be considered rape – even those that are just well-after-the-fact regrets and anger at being “dumped”.
It is extremely unlikely that 50% of college women don’t report legitimate rapes.
---
* In Colorado, indecent exposure, such as women flashing their breast in public (which happens with very high frequency) is technically a sex-based crime, and would require the offender to resister as a sex offender. That no women are on the Colorado SOR for incidents of indecent exposure is only because in each and every case, they either have charges dropped or plead to lesser offense - because no prosecutor wants a woman to end up on the SOR for flashing.
lol, Colorado flashing. That sounds like the law still on the books in Georgia that oral sex is a crime... even in the privacy of your own bedroom. Tons of people are breaking the law there :)
Maybe Georgia has scrapped this law by now, I don't know.
Atom - "lol, Colorado flashing."
Agreed that it is ludicrous.
But, now I regret bringing it up as it allowed you to "escape" addressing the more important questions I posed to you.
That indecent exposure remains a sex-based crime is perhaps largely due to the intent to keep the acts of perverts flashing women and children as sexual assaults. It would be un-Constitutional to proclaim indecent exposure by men one class of crime, while when done by women, a lesser crime.
But, of course, that was only intended to put perspective on your misconception of sexual assaults being equated with rape.
That groping and lewd behaviors are also considered sexual assaults (primarily when suffered by women - groped and flashed men being generally ridiculed and dismissed if the dare to complain) - seemed to have completely escaped you.
Reports of actual rapes are typically in the single digits for major college campuses annually. Even 17 or 21 would have put UC-Davis well outside the norm.
That is what I wanted to get across to you - admittedly, in the hope that you would be forced to address it.
Unfortunately, I also provided you with something you could make light of as well.
I guess I should have known better.
Say, any chance you'll take a stab at addressing my questions about where the stats come from, what scientifically valid studies have been done, or even what percentage of sexual assaults are account for by rape?
The current practice of law enforcement redefining what the meaning of is, is, to hide from the public the true percentages of false rape acussations..is beyond the scope of policing powers that were granted for in the constitution.
Manufacturing statistics to cash in these manufactured statistics is grounds for a civil rights lawsuit, quite possibly the most substantial civil rights lawsuit this country has seen since re-asserting the 14th amendment after the last scourge of rape lynchings.
I'll work on it. I guess I AM guilty of using "rape" and sexual assault" interchangeably.
Meanwhile, here's something interesting on how rape is encouraged and condoned (rape culture):
"... men who will never themselves cross the line into criminal behavior, but who by their participation in peer groups and activities either actively or passively provide support or camouflage for the sexual predators in their midst. By laughing at their jokes, by listening uncritically to their stories of 'conquests' and 'scores,' men become facilitators or passive bystanders of criminal behavior."
"Knifonged":a verb; to be publicly lynched by law enforcement /media/ and others; over a rape accusation, for a rape that never happened.
Atom wants all women / girls to have the unique power to "Rape lynch" someone..whenever they want to. But i say they have abused that "Rape lynch" power, to the degree it needs to be taken from them.
This is also compelling:
"According to the U.S. Department of Justice, 10 times more rapes are reported to crisis lines than are reported to the police."
And this:
"... 20-25% of women will be raped during their college years according to the US Department of Justice ... "
Maybe the Dept of Justice should also publish a study on false rape claims.
Atom - "Meanwhile, here's something interesting on how rape is encouraged and condoned (rape culture)"
So, does that come from a credible source? Or, is it something you wrote yourself?
I would point out to you that rape – real rape - is a crime abhorred by almost all men.
No guy would ever admit, or even allow it to be suggested, that he had to utilize force to get sex. So these supposed tales of conquests you believe to be readily exchanged between men ARE largely a figment of your fevered imagination.
Personally, I’m an avid weight-lifter and a bit of a gym-rat. I’ve spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in locker rooms, and I can honestly report that stories of sexual encounters are few and far between. From what my wife tells me, women discuss their sexuality and sexual encounters/conquests with other women far more, and in far greater detail, than men ever do. What one can hear in the gender-selective privacy of a men’s locker room pales to what one can frequently over-hear exchanged between women in public settings.
I’d like to see a test done wherein microphones were hidden in the locker rooms of both genders, and also above tables at café’s. I think women would be shocked to discover just how much more “course” their discussions are than those between men.
Again, between men, rape is always a complete “no-no”. Any sick-assed b*stard that would even allude to doing any such thing would be unanimously shunned. Thus, men are extremely unlikely to ever be tempted into raping by the recounted “successes” of other men.
Atom - "According to the U.S. Department of Justice, 10 times more rapes are reported to crisis lines than are reported to the police."
Link please.
I've seen the USDOJ crime tables, but never have I encountered a mention of unsubstantiated data such as what private crisis center report.
Your quote seems as like to come from a feminist source claiming it to be DOJ info, as it that it is any actual DOJ info.
I can't say for sure, of course, so ... show me.
Atom,
If you do decide to go looking for that source, but find you have no luck:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/rape_sexual_assault.htm
(good luck finding any reference to rape crisis centers)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm#Programs
(see what I mean about their not using unsubstantiated data)
okay, i'll get them for you, but if you don't believe the DOJ, why should I bother? Won't you just say they're contrived?
Halliburton an example of "most women don't report rape":
Do you realize that if ONE woman had not come forward, female employess would continue being drugged and gang raped by co-workers. Since then, other female employees have had the courage to come forward.
Thanks to the recently passed bill, Halliburton's "arbitration" clause will be of no use in the case of crime.
Graham, Sessions, Ensign, McCain are 4 of 30 republicans (all men) who voted against the bill.
http://media.www.thegeorgetownindependent.com/media/storage/paper136/news/2006/04/25/News/Sexual.Assault-1877340.shtml
and
http://media.www.bsudailynews.com/media/storage/paper849/news/2009/09/10/News/Blurring.The.Line-3767712.shtml
Atom - "okay, i'll get them for you, but if you don't believe the DOJ..."
The point is, I DO believe the USDOJ. What I'm not as inclined to believe is that the USDOJ publishes information about reports to third-party entities.
I also seldom believe agitprop scrapped from the soles of the shoes of someone who's stepped in a feminist site.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf
This DOJ report is outdated, but very alarming.
Atom,
I'm still looking for the actual publication or web site in which the US DOJ reports on the number of calls to rape crisis centers vs reports of police agencies.
The media has had a bad reputation for running with some urban legends - like the one about the rate of false rape reports being only 2%. Frequently, that number was also attributed that to either the FBI or DOJ - neither agency ever published such information (IIRC, it was eventually traced back to a comment made to a reporter by some feminist activist that was transmogrified into an official statistic absent any attempt to study the assertion).
So, while I'm sure you believe it to be true, the fact that it is referenced (from another reference from yet another reference) in new reports does not prove to me that the DOJ has ever actually published such a statistic. If they had, surely that publication could be found.
Atom - "This DOJ report is outdated, but very alarming."
I’m not sure what to make of it. If true, it would have been disturbing. Like this excerpt:
Based on their findings, Bonnie Fisher and her colleagues estimate that the women at a college that has 10,000 female students could experience more than 350 rapes a year
Fortunately, now-a-days, and for several year running, colleges that size (and even larger) report single-digit incidences of rape.
Looks like we’ve made great strides in rape prevention.
Now, if we could just do the same for false rape allegations, we’d be all set.
Atom,
The first link you give uses the duke case saying that it is still uncertain what happened. I realize it is 3 years old, but you might want to use something that doesn't shoot itself in the foot within the first 2 paragraphs.
In neither article, do they even try to support the claims made.
The American Medical Association calls sexual assault a "silent epidemic," with 65 percent of attacks going unreported.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, 10 times more rapes are reported to crisis lines than are reported to the police.
Really? Cause I can't find it on the DOJ site. At all. Neither can I find a thing on the AMA site. Funny that. You would think it would be fairly simple.
Atom says
This is also compelling:
"According to the U.S. Department of Justice, 10 times more rapes are reported to crisis lines than are reported to the police."
Oct 9, 2009 2:53:00 PM
Scott says...how many of these ???rapes??? really happened??
Atom, my false rape acusser got a chunck of cash from one of these crisis centers..so why wouldn't women cash in their stories for dollars. They never have to tell the police (because the police will have to investigate, and they might get caught lying if they were investigated)..
and they get loads of attention and a chunk of cash also.
Oh, and here's a excerpt from Heather Mac Donald's "The Campus Rape Myth" regarding such campus rape studies:
Koss’s study had serious flaws. Her survey instrument was highly ambiguous, as University of California at Berkeley social-welfare professor Neil Gilbert has pointed out. But the most powerful refutation of Koss’s research came from her own subjects: 73 percent of the women whom she characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped. Further—though it is inconceivable that a raped woman would voluntarily have sex again with the fiend who attacked her—42 percent of Koss’s supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants.
All subsequent feminist rape studies have resulted in this discrepancy between the researchers’ conclusions and the subjects’ own views. A survey of sorority girls at the University of Virginia found that only 23 percent of the subjects whom the survey characterized as rape victims felt that they had been raped—a result that the university’s director of Sexual and Domestic Violence Services calls “discouraging.” Equally damning was a 2000 campus rape study conducted under the aegis of the Department of Justice. Sixty-five percent of what the feminist researchers called “completed rape” victims and three-quarters of “attempted rape” victims said that they did not think that their experiences were “serious enough to report.” The “victims” in the study, moreover, “generally did not state that their victimization resulted in physical or emotional injuries,” report the researchers.
More things that make you go, Hummm?
You're taxing my overworked brain. Before it slips by, did you see my post about Halliburton? It refutes today's article "Overreporting .... ".
And I'm sure most everyone here will avoid any discussion on Halliburton and the Senators who voted against the Bill to protect employees against future "arbibration" clauses.
I believe their should be a full and exhaustive investigation of all Rape crisis centers in the U.S.
If they are manufacturing statistics, and lying to state and federal authorities to get more funding..This is fraud, and the women responsible should be removed, and never be able to work in the sector that gets state and federal dollars again.
Atom - "Before it slips by, did you see my post about Halliburton?"
Yes, I saw it. However, I hadn't followed the story, so I'm not quite sure what all it entailed.
I'm not inclined to try to discuss the merits and/or ramifications of something I know very little about.
Do you have a link to a complete synopsis?
@4:34, how can a crisis center sell a story without factual proof (police investigation, trial, etc)?
They'd be sued for Defamation.
Atom asks - "how can a crisis center sell a story without factual proof (police investigation, trial, etc)?"
Seems they don't sell stories, they report the number of calls they get.
For all any of us knows, they can count numerous calls about the same incident as being each, a unique "call".
Likewise, they might be counting every call from someone asking questions about what might be rape or sexual assault.
And, for that matter, how do we know that they don't count "wrong numbers", or calls to the center from friends or family of workers there calling to talk to that person about non-rape related matters?
Point is, we don't know anything about how they generate the number they report.
Exactly why it seems unlikely that the US DOJ would cite the number of calls that they report.
One thing the DOJ does do well is apply valid and defensible methods to aggregating the "hard" numbers they do publish.
When I say I trust the DOJ, it is those hard number that I trust.
However, anytime they try to make judgments, they get onto thin ice.
Also, they do employ some slight-of-hands to try to skew perceptions of their data in politically-correct ways. For instance, a close look at their offender tables and victim tables would make it appear as though Hispanics are frequently the victims of crimes, but, that Hispanics never commit any crimes.
Really, what this whole thing boils down to, is that 2 different colleges were cooking the books and inflating their numbers. Then touting those numbers to scare everyone that "Rape" is rampant on our nations campuses. And she didn't used the actual numbers from her school to apply? She lied, it's fraud, and she should be prosecuted.
Davis reported 48 forcible sexual offenses in 2005, 68 in 2006 and 69 in 2007. The actual totals, according to the two reviews, were 21, 23 and 33.
So she reported 2.4 times the actual numbers. And those were sexual offenses, which include rape. So the number of rapes is a subset of those 77 reported offenses (21+23+33).
Pierce called it in his Oct 9, 2009 12:24:00 PM post.
Archivist, do you think the other women who came forward after Jamie Leigh Jones in the Halliburton case are guilty of the same thing? I mean do you think these "other" women are merely copycats, and that this is an example of "OVERREPORTING"?
Atom is a puppet used by feminist propagandists.
SgtMom said...
Atom,
Having worked in a High School health office, I can tell you High School girls are not infrequent callers to rape crisis hotlines.
Not because they've been raped, but because they are 'testing' the boundaries, or formulating a 'just in case' story should the need arise.
I once had a little group of them call from my office and got advice on how to 'leave a paper trail' on some guy they felt was disrespectful. They were told if enough of them called in a complaint against the boy something would one day stick.
I can GUARANTEE you EVERY false accuser has put out feelers and tested the waters of what they can and cannot get away with as far as falsely accusing goes.
Something so huge and so heinous doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Like all sex offenders, and make no doubt about it - false accusers ARE sex offenders-they begin with testing boundaries in small ways to see what they can and can't get away with.
Women/girls ALSO participate in peer groups encouraging false accusations.
Low-lifes exist with BOTH genders. slwerner, you must hang out with a high class crowd!
Working in a high school you meet kids who are the best of the best and the worst of the worst. That's the age sexual outlooks are formulated.
As far as the Haliburton story goes - I'll wait a few years til BOTH sides of the story come out to make judgements.
That story ranks right up there with pre school teachers raping dozens of little kiddies in secret rooms, or America's brightest honor students qualified for one of the most difficult learning institutions turning into maddened rapists at the Air Force Academy.
In other words, Unbelievable.
Oct 12, 2009 12:16:23 AM
SgtMom says,
"That story [halliburton] ranks right up there with pre school teachers raping dozens of little kiddies in secret rooms, or
America's brightest honor students qualified for one of the most difficult learning institutions turning into maddened rapists at the Air Force Academy. In other words, Unbelievable."
Yes indeed ... it is unbelievable, and can happen at any higher learning institution in all-male environments ... not just the Air Force Academy. Being a brilliant honor student does NOT preclude a man from Rape if he's drawin into a pack mentality. This type rapist can be very disarming, and his victim will be considered less credible than he.
High school girls who intentionally form a circle of deceit just to make a false accusation against some poor kid .... I'm interested if you know what's going on in high school "now" to deter false accusers. Some class should be designed to get the message across how much damamge is caused by lying. The instructor should be someone who has "seen it all".
Same goes for the boys ... for other reasons.
Cheating has become rampant in schools these days, so more than just a course about lying is needed.
I didn't state it clearly. I meant lying as related to false accusations. Actually, I'd like to see psychology involved along with "role" playing ... mandatory classes for male and female students on the devastation of both false accusations and rape.
A culture where lying and cheating are tolerated just might be supportive of false rape accusations, just as swamps produce more mosquitos.
Swamps produce Rapists too, so don't back me into a corner when I'm trying to see both sides.
Just as the daycare witch hunts turned out to be bogus, so did the Air Force Academy scandals. What was never again mentioned after the Oprah show was every last one of the accusers were failing in school or were about to be expelled - which would leave them hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
EVERY ONE OF THEM.
After all the whining and accusations died down, at the end of the day, the accused were innocent. The accusers weaseled out of repaying their debt.
If you actually believe American men are running amok raping harmless little mothers because they can - I've got some valuable desert property you REALLY need to take a look at.
Let me ask you, Atom. Woman to woman. Where in the world do you live/work/visit where men get away with such things?
What in your life's experience has led you to believe something so patently false or outlandish?
Nothing personal - I'm just curious.
What sort of father/brother/grandfather do you have in your life that has lead to such a warped perception?
What isolated utopia spawns only sainted women and bedeviled men?
Seriously.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
sexual assault (alleged) != rape
lying cunt atom
AfOR
This guy being the exception...
As far as schools "discouraging false accusations" it will never happen.
As always in life, "some" people are believed, and "some" aren't.
Too often that 'belief' is based on politics or personality - not on truth or fairness.
"What's in it for me?" usually has more to do with who's believed and who's not...imho...
SgtMom asks, "Let me ask you, Atom. Woman to woman. Where in the world do you live/work/visit where men get away with such things?
What in your life's experience has led you to believe something so patently false or outlandish?
Nothing personal - I'm just curious."
Of course, I'd never tell you anything "personal".
http://www.georgia-tech-rape-victim2.blogspot.com
Ahhh. I see. The Glen Sacks Georgia Girl.
That explains it.
Ah ha!!! Atom is none other than the astute dipshit who seeks therapy on men's boards (for some memory she recovered fifty years after the alleged incident)!
Sgt. Jim, I do find that once in a while you get something right.
Norm,
I'm SgtMom.
"Jim" is the name of one of my son's false accusers. I hope you'll understand.
Sgt.Mom
Do you mean 'Jim' said your son raped some girl or something?
Why are you portraying Jim as a woman-hater in the other thread?
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