You need to read this all the way through, and then ask yourself: how many more boys will the teen girl in question be permitted to put behind bars? If insanity is demonstrated by repeatedly doing foolish acts and not learning from them, then our society is insane. Every time this girl accuses a boy -- any boy -- of rape, the authorities toss them in jail. They are guilty by reason of penis. With the rash of false gang rape claims in the news the past couple of months, it is time to add to our list of males vulnerable to false rape charges young men or boys who participate in group sex.
Here is what happened: Four 17-year-old boys (who are black) were falsely accused by a 15-year-old girl (who is white) (see here) of raping her. After the allegation was made, the school district jumped on the rush-to-judgment-because-a-male-has-been-accused band wagon. "We're deeply concerned about these young people and their families as well. Its very disturbing, frightening and frustrating," says the school district's Chief Adminsitrative Officer, Mary Ann Gemmill. See here Tell me, Ms. Gemmill, are you as deeply concerned about a serial false rape accuser? I would bet not.
The boys are still in jail for having sex with a minor (which is another injustice that we should acknowledge, even though it is beyond the scope of our site -- they were 17 and she was 15, and girls, we are told, mature faster than boys). Here is an excerpt from the news story:
The Immokalee football players — Kovan McSwain, Joshua Edison, Deonte Clifton and Demandrea Fuller, each 17 — were arrested around 1:30 a.m. on Oct. 16 after a 15-year-old student accused them of gang-raping her the night before outside a portable Immokalee High classroom, across campus from where a junior varsity game was being played.
Investigators say the 15-year-old later recanted the rape allegations, and admitted that she had, in fact, agreed to the sex.
Why then do the football players remain behind bars?
Because, according to Florida law, engaging in sexual activity with anyone under 16 is classified as lewd or lascivious battery, a second-degree felony.
And the law doesn’t just apply to people over 16.
“If you have two 15-year-olds who are having sex, both of them are technically committing the crime,” said Shannon McFee, a Naples attorney who regularly talks with teens about the legal consequences of underage sex. “Either or both could be prosecuted.”
Anyone 24 or older who engages in “sexual activity” with a 16- or 17-year-old can be charged with sexual battery, a second-degree felony, according to state laws. Story here
But that's not even the whole story: incredibly, another boy sits in jail because of a prior allegation the girl made against him just last month. Read the story here Here is an excerpt:
Tyrone Fuller denies ever having sex with the girl. He said that at the time the girl was dating another boy, and that her father thought it was him.
“Her dad is getting mad because he can’t control his daughter,” Fuller said.
During a jail interview with a Daily News reporter, Tyrone Fuller held up to the video visitation monitor a letter that he said was from the 15-year-old apologizing for sending him to jail. In the letter, the girl allegedly wrote that her father was trying to put Fuller “behind bars.”
Tyrone Fuller said he’s fought with the girl’s father in the past.
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51 comments:
" Tell me, Ms. Gemmill, are you as deeply concerned about a serial false rape accuser? I would bet not. "
Ms. Gemmill,and everyone else, shouldxtemely concerned. These, and other false accusers, are the enemies of humankind. I'm sure any feminist can provide information,although it is more then likely biased, as to how much money it costs society everytime a female is the victim of a violent crime but, can they provide unbiased information ( sources cited) as to how much money each and every false accusation for any violent crime costs society? How much tax revenue does this crap costs the government as it continues to be lead by it's nose by the feminists and their destructive agendas? How mant of the tax dollars,and cents, does it cost them and the taxpayers? For a short answer as to how much this crap costs us taxpayers; IT COSTS TO MUCH!
WWMND? (What would Mike Nipong aka knifong do?)
Sorry, having sex with a minor, eg someone too young to be able to give legally informed consent, is in fact rape.
If you wish, "statutory rape" instead of "rape", but it is rape nonetheless.
If you are going to argue that a 14 year old can give informed consent, then why stop there, why not a 10 year old, why not a 5 year old?
The law is right, a 14 year old is not intellectually aware enough to give consent to a gang bang, even if the 14 year old in question thinks they are old enough to fuck, drive a truck, vote, etc.
AfOR
Here is just one of the anthems that feminists loved that was owned by one of their favorite types of women/girls. The " prick teaser ".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UX2afsTqFI
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Nightmare-over-false-rape-claim.5764558.jp
AfOR
Several boys' lives ruined, because of a worthless tramp who lives for the thrill of being on a power trip. Which the government enables.
How many more victims will there be? She'll screw as many as she can, because that's what a piece of trash like her lives for. SHE should be in jail.
Thanks AFOR,
Set that to run earlier today. :)
Beat ya to it this time.
lol
http://news.google.co.uk/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=uk&hl=en&q=false+rape
AfOR
The law is right, a 14 year old is not intellectually aware enough to give consent to a gang bang, even if the 14 year old in question thinks they are old enough to fuck, drive a truck, vote, etc.
AfOR
Nature disagrees with you on this one. Physically they are ready by 14 and not when 10 or 5. Not saying it's moral but physically/naturally speaking they are prepared.
Nature disagrees with you on this one. Physically they are ready by 14 and not when 10 or 5. Not saying it's moral but physically/naturally speaking they are prepared.
So give 14 year olds the vote, let them buy whisky, drive a 'vette, get married, choose the sex of their child in the fertility clinic, have silicone tits and labia reconstruction surgery, and let them hold a gun and go to war.
UNTIL THEN they are like every other citizen under the Law.
It was (stautory) rape, pure and simple.
The MRA movement is doing itself *no* favours trying to paint this as just another false rape like Hosfra.
AfOR
You're right, it totally makes sense for 17 year olds to be charged with felonies for having sex with a 15 year old. Lots and lots of sense.
The statutory thing is nonsense. There is no difference between a 17 year old and a 14 year old. To treat the 17 year old as a criminal for having sex with a 14 year who is simply a peer in school is wrong. Furthermore, teenagers are able to consent, they are not children. It's only in recent history that they are not considered actual adults. Now a full adult having sex with a 14 year old is a different matter. The problem is that there has to be critical thinking and common sense to judge each situation.
My personal favorite is when an underage girl is able to lie to her parents, sneak out of the house, get herself a fake ID, go into bars and clubs and mingle with adults, but yet is a helpless unknowing victim when she has consensual sex.
The statutory thing is nonsense.
NO IT IS NOT.
You absolutely *have* to draw the line somewhere, and 16 is it for much of the western world.
YOUR attitude, "14 is OK" opens the door to someone else saying "13 is OK" which opens the door to someone else saying "12 is OK " (a 12 year old girl just gave birth in the UK, the father was 13)
Before you know it everyone on the planet with kids who have reached double digits age (eg 10+) start looking at what you are writing and start thinking you are a fucking paedophile.
Is this what you want the MRA associated with?
Your "it is just biology" argument is after all IDENTICAL to the radical feminists, "it is just biology" (eg "he has a penis")
I can do speed limit + 50 mph on the roads at 2 am when they are empty and be safer than speed limit -20 during the day, IT IS STILL FUCKING ILLEGAL.
AfOR
Your argument is completely naive and void of any ability to critically think at all. For the example at hand, a 25 year old having sex with a 14 year old is statutory. A 17 year old having consensual sex with a 14 year old is not. Your inability to critically think and only think in absolutes is the reason the world is the mess that it is.
For your inane speed limit example why should we have speed limits at 55? OMG if we let them drive at 55 then it will move higher and higher! If we say 55 is ok pretty soon people will be speeding more and more and they'll be no speed limit and everyone in the country will be driving 100 and they''l be endless accidents!!! Uh, no. Learn to think.
Your argument is completely naive and void of any ability to critically think at all.
I have been falsely accused of rape.
I have and indeed am walking this particular walk.
If assholes like you want to spout your "if it is old enough to bleed, it is old enough to breed" bullshit, please do it a million miles away from anything concerned with the injustice I have and am suffering.
The age of consent is a LAW, not a fucking opinion, not a relative age number, not a relative race number, not a relative IQ number, not a relative socio-economic background number.
According to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Age_of_Consent.png
you should move to Saudi, where there is no law on the Age of Consent.
The Law is the Law, there is no thinking, critical or otherwise, involved.
The falsely accused, LIKE MYSELF, are only in this position because the Laws are not applied equally to all.
We, the falsely accused, are only i this position because Police and Prosecutors think the Law is something that only tha naieve and thoe unable to thing critically should be bound by, while they, being more worldly and able to think critically, are able to interpret and apply the Law at will, on their own personal whims.
I, as an (falsely) accused, cannot afford to continue to associate with a website that tolerates attitudes such as yours that seek to actively support the statutory rape of minors.
Thanks for all the fish Pierce.
AfOR
You older folks here are just starting to get a taste of how the gender / Raunch feminist culture is affecting our youth.
@AfOR
Anon from 6:35 says:
I agree totally that this is not the place to talk about such things. It only came up because it relates to the post, which is unfortunately a bit dodgy (no offense).
However spouting out "the law is the law" like it means anything isn't going to help you win an argument. Laws can be unjust and laws can definitely be wrong.
Though, as stated initially, not the time nor place. We should probably just ignoring this article as DESPITE there being a false rape accusation as AfOR has stated there was a LEGAL rape taking place.
The age of consent is a LAW, not a fucking opinion, not a relative age number, not a relative race number, not a relative IQ number, not a relative socio-economic background number.
**************
There are also LAWS against perjury and filing felony false police reports, but those LAWS are routinely ignored.
There is no reason why a teenager should ever go to jail for going to bed with another. False accusations and draconian legalism are closely related issues. You can't afford to be high and mighty on these issues and then complain about being falsely accused. The system is out of control and must be reigned in, period.
You are also ignored the fact that many DAs offices across this country do NOT charge 17 year-old boys with rape if they sleep with 15 year-olds. Stop being so sanctimonious, especially when some boys have been falsely accused.
We MRAs can't afford to fly apart over minor disagreements like this. An MRA who agrees with you 80% of the time is your friend and ally, not a traitor.
I have been falsely accused of rape.
I have and indeed am walking this particular walk.
If assholes like you want to spout your "if it is old enough to bleed, it is old enough to breed" bullshit, please do it a million miles away from anything concerned with the injustice I have and am suffering.
The age of consent is a LAW, not a fucking opinion, not a relative age number, not a relative race number, not a relative IQ number, not a relative socio-economic background number.
You've been falsely accused. So have many others. It has no bearing on how wrong you are here. You're comment about "old enough to bleed..." shows you have no reading comprehension in addition to your simplistic logic. I pretty explicitly explained that situations differ. If a grown man has sex with a 14 year old then yes, there is a problem. To equate a 17 year old who goes to school with a 14 year old and has consensual sex as the same situation shows lack of ability to critically think. And yes, quite frankly, it actually is relative. There were times when it was the norm for people to be married and started having families before they were out of their teens.
Your view of law is silly and simplistic. Laws aren't meant to be bible commandments written in stone that can never be tweaked, changed or improved upon . As a matter of fact ,Thomas Jefferson believed every generation should have taken the Constitution and changed it to their times to make it a more perfect living and breathing document. It wasn't meant to be "this is LAW....OBEY". Unfortunately as your comments prove, the majority of people would rather be told what to do and follow things blindly which leads to disasters rather than to actually critically think.
Hell in most states most kinds of consensual sex between married adults is technically illegal due to archaic laws that are still technically on the books. Should we start arresting everyone bc it is the LAW? Please start thinking.
Am I the only one who noticed the boys were also minors?
We should consider the level of maturity of the boys.
Another unpleasant fact: 20% of teenaged girls are now technically guilty of distributing child pornography. It's called "sexting."
Just imagine if that law was enforced across the board. Kids have already gone to jail just for "sexting" images of themselves to other kids.
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." -- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
According to this no female is able to truely consent. What does this claim we men are?
It is my understanding that according to common law, no female under the age of eighteen is considered old enough or mature enough to consent, so why are females under the age of eighteen giving consent? To me, if a female under eighteen is not old enough or mature enough to given consent, then a male who is under eighteen is not old or mature enough to give consent. That being said, since they are chrging the boys with statutory rape, they should also charge the girl.
Whether or not something in law does not necessarily make it just. There are plenty of laws that don't make sense. That doesn't mean we should lay on our backs and give our consent.
Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
I don't lay on my back and give consent. In fact I don't put myself in a posistion so that I have to decide wether to give consent or not. Anymore, for a male to consent to sex is giving consent to being falsely accused of rape or sexual assault. It is not worth it.
and that is no matter what the law(s) state. I am glad there is no law to force me to give consent to having sex with any female. As far as having sex with males, not natural or appealing.
It's pretty obvious that those boys are in jail because they committed a second degree felony (being over 16 and sleeping with an underage girl).
They may have originally been in there on a false accusation, but they still broke the law. If you're man enough to do the crime, be man enough to do the time.
It seems to me that Pierce is now doing what feminists routinely do - twist the facts of a story to get headlines.
Kids? No way!
Mark -- fuck you. Just FUCK YOU.
No 17 year-old boy should ever go to jail just for sleeping with a 15year-old girl. Only in a society this messed up is that a "crime."
Again: FUCK YOU.
On the basis of what I'm seeing here and elsewhere, I'm not at all optimistic that MRAs and false accusation activists are ever going to get anywhere. The reason is simple.
Feminists are 100% on the side of women 24/7/365. MRAs, on the other hand, are on the side of men -- when it damned well suits them to be. The rest of the time they're stabbing men in the back, just like men who never heard of men's rights.
You can't win a tug of war if you drop the rope whenever you decide that it's inconvenient to keep pulling.
Plus there are just more feminists. LOTS more. So I hope you guys enjoy reading about false accusers getting away with it! There's plenty more where that came from.
Re Statutory rape...
In Aus the age of consent is sixteen through most of the country. However there is significant discretion allowed for situations which are clearly relationships when that age boundary is straddled by only a couple of years. The participants in that relationship ARE involved in that decision making process.
It is unlikely that a seventeen year old boyfriend of a fifteen year old girl would ever be charged with rape in this country.
All that aside our age of consent is fine where it is. A fifteen year old, particularly a male, is in no way capable of enduring a sexual relationship with an adult without some distortions to their development.
Just today I posted on Sacks blog relating to male victims of female abusers to whit...
Adolescent boys go through a phase during which they distance themselves, of necessity, from the woman/mother centered universe they grow up in. The woman who pushes herself into that boy's life overtakes the roles of mother AND lover. It is incredibly distorting to all the victim's concepts relating to gender roles and behaviour.
Similar problems will confront girls in equivalent circumstances. The mid teens is the time kids begin to develop empathy. Adult sexual interference hampers this development significantly. Victims of both genders are very likely to go into the future unable to sustain viable adult relationships. It can cause severe long term destabilisation to their mental health and it is no surprise that even the teenage victims have much higher rates of suicide than the general population.
Mark said...
It's pretty obvious that those boys are in jail because they committed a second degree felony (being over 16 and sleeping with an underage girl).
They may have originally been in there on a false accusation, but they still broke the law. If you're man enough to do the crime, be man enough to do the time.
By this same logic the girl should be treated the same. If they are to be charged with a felony, she must also be charged with the same felony. She should also have the charge of making a false rape accusation/filing a false report with the police.
Oct 27, 2009 4:18:00 AM
Anonymous said...
"You older folks here are just starting to get a taste of how the gender / Raunch feminist culture is affecting our youth".
Oct 26, 2009 8:49:00 PM
Some of older folks foresaw what was going to happen to younger folk. This is one of the epic reasons we became active in doing what is neccessary to preserve your future. There is no time to thank us. You future depends on you getting active and proactive in doing what is neccessary to preserve your rights. The time to make things better for you and all others of yours, and future generations, is now.
Anonymous said...
"On the basis of what I'm seeing here and elsewhere, I'm not at all optimistic that MRAs and false accusation activists are ever going to get anywhere. The reason is simple".
Some of us are getting somwhere. IMHO, one of the reasons for all of the static amongsts MRAs is due to the feminist crap we were indoctrinated with as children, as well, as the different values we acquired during our upbringing.
" Feminists are 100% on the side of women 24/7/365 ".
They are only on the side of those women who subscribe to and carry out their agendas. Any fellow female who dares to questions their judgment is excommunicated from their coven(s)
" MRAs, on the other hand, are on the side of men -- when it damned well suits them to be."
MRAs, such as myself, are on the side of ALL men. I am not only an MRA, I am an almost militant activist for american citizen's rights as they are set in the U.S. Constitution. I am also an activist for citizen's civil rights and human rights. I, however, do understand you point. Good point by the way.
"The rest of the time they're stabbing men in the back, just like men who never heard of men's rights".
The part of stabbing men in the back is due to natural male rivalry. It is also due to different styles of upbringing, as well as, the different values we have as a result.
"You can't win a tug of war if you drop the rope whenever you decide that it's inconvenient to keep pulling."
Exactly.
"Plus there are just more feminists. LOTS more.
I took this into account when I became an MRA. A ninja is capable of taking of multiple enemies at one time.
"So I hope you guys enjoy reading about false accusers getting away with it"!
I personally do not
" There's plenty more where that came from".
This is no surprise. This is something I personally expected.
Oct 27, 2009 5:43:00 AM
I'm sure that there are plenty of femists laughing at the way we are arguing amongst ourselves. LET'S KEEP FOCUSED ON OUR MISSION, SHALL WE GENTLEMEN!
I could write several posts about the comments to this thread. When teen boys (under 18) have sex with teen girls, and the boys are slightly older, I have a problem with the statutory rape label. I understand some state legislatures have ordained it a crime, but I have a problem with it. Moreover, I have a problem with the selective prosecution that charges boys with statutory rape but not girls. It's either all or nothing, and I opt in favor of nothing. Is it right? Not in my book, but it shouldn't be a crime. A false accusation of forcible rape is in a different class than teens having consensual sex.
One other note. We have several readers who have appointed themselves the MRA police. If I don't follow your orthodoxy, whatever that may be, it's because I am looking at this issue through my own lens. If it offends you, then your time is probably better spent reading another blog. I don't find any of that particular group especially persuasive.
Afor,
Let me point something out on this. Here in the U.S. (don't know about where you are), a 14 year old is legally able to have an abortion, without parental consent. But legally, she can't consent to the act that made that abortion necessary.
I thought the teenage years were about starting to make choices, and dealing with the consequences of those chioces. How do we do that, if we punish others every time a choice is made?
all,
Should a 17 year old and a 15 year old having sex be illegal? I agree with Pierce, and don't think so, but YMMV. But the fact is, if the sexes were reversed, they wouldn't even be looking at pressing any kind of charge against the girl. That is the sexist double standard that HAS to stop. Otherwise, we might as well get rid of the 14th amendment.
Some of the MRA police agree with you about this, you know.
And here's another thing: maybe we would support the statutory rape laws as applied to older teen boys -- if they were reasonable laws.
But how can we possibly support forcing these young men to live under a bridge just for sleeping with a teenaged girl? That's cruel and unnecessary. These boys aren't criminals; they just made a mistake. On the other hand, she committed a serious offense when she lied and claimed that they forced her.
And there is no way I would support this in reverse, either. If the girl was 17 and he was 15 or whatever I would let her go, too. There are better things for law enforcement to focus on.
I find it disturbing how quick the authorities are to release the names of the accused. Should their identities not be protected until they are convicted?
And why is this "15-year old girl"'s identity protected when it is clear she actually has committed a crime?
I agree that the age line must be drawn somewhere, but there are Juliet laws for a reason. A 15 yo and a 17 yo go to the same school, join the same activities, and possibly even share classes. This isn't the creepy college kid poaching a HS, these are two peers (and yes, I would argue even emotionally). The felony law that is in place in Florida is poorly written and will likely be revised in the near future. Otherwise, you will need a >16 and a 16+ set of high schools to help avoid felonious activities.
Anonymous said...
By this same logic the girl should be treated the same. If they are to be charged with a felony, she must also be charged with the same felony. She should also have the charge of making a false rape accusation/filing a false report with the police.
I absolutely agree with you Anonymous. She committed a crime also and should also be charged.
Its interesting to me that some people are excusing these blokes actions by critiquing the Age of Consent. Whether you agree with it or not, it's still the law. If you break the law and get caught, then you must accept your punishment. Simple.
That's bologna. There are prosecutors' offices that wouldn't touch this case with a ten foot pole, and with good reason. Teenagers do not need to be going to jail for sex with other teenagers. That's ridiculous.
And why is this "15-year old girl"'s identity protected when it is clear she actually has committed a crime?
Because she has a vagina, and for no other reason.
"If you break the law and get caught, then you must accept your punishment. Simple."
Mark strikes me as a self-righteous prick, all due respect, Mark. You obviously are new to these issues or very young or just an asshole of the first order. If the laws were applied even-handedly, none of us would need sites like this. It's not a question of "excusing" anyone. Moreover, there is a shitload of a difference between 17 year olds forcibly raping a 15 year old and consensual sex. Every judge would recognize such a difference in imposing sentence. The former crime would generally garner a far greater sentence than the latter. That you don't seem capable of making distinctions just shows you ought not to be so fucking self-righteous.
"It's pretty obvious that those boys are in jail because they committed a second degree felony (being over 16 and sleeping with an underage girl). "
It's pretty obvious that they are in jail for another reason.
"Its interesting to me that some people are excusing these blokes ...."
Aha. Now I see why it's not obvious to you. "blokes" What you are missing is that there is a well established tradition in the US of going all lynch-mob crazy over black boys and white girls. that's why these kids are being treated this way. it's all about preserving the sanctity of white coochie.
I think they call it "twadge" on the other side of the Atlantic.
Just FYI - When 'feminism' first got started, and I know, I was there, there was a LOT of disagreement and ship jumping.
"Women are their own worst enemies" was a frequent lament. "Sleeping with the enemy"...
Just growing pains, guys.
Statutory rape laws have been in effect for a long, long time.
They aren't gonna change any time soon. They are more a way ineffective fathers maintain some control over wayward daughters - by jailing some kid for defiling the princess.
My husband will turn 60 in 6 months - these laws were around in his school days, as they are now. "She can't even have her shoes off" was the rule, or guys could be charged.
The difference between then and now is the barrage of sexuality kids are over exposed to these days.
Girls were 'protected' and taught to at least PRETEND to be a 'good girl'.
Now days thong panties are marketed for elementary aged girls. Baby dolls are out, hooker-esque dolls are the norm.
A concerted effort to publicly educate and protect young males is desperately needed.
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